http://specials.rediff.com/movies/20...-and-faith.htm
Im disappointed with his statement about ARR
Bala on ARR
Thread started by Mahen on 12th March 2009 11:22 AM
Bala's latest interview on rediff..
http://specials.rediff.com/movies/20...-and-faith.htm
Im disappointed with his statement about ARR
http://specials.rediff.com/movies/20...-and-faith.htm
Im disappointed with his statement about ARR
Responses:
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From: groucho070 on 12th March 2009 12:03 PM [Full View]
"...A R Rahman has just won the Oscars. You have never worked with him. Will you work with him? Is he suitable for your kind of films?
I can't predict the future. But one thing is sure. Rahman's music would not have worked for my films, from Sethu to Naan Kadavul...."
I don't see anything wrong with it.
He didn't deny that he might work with ARR in the future. At the same time, as a director he knows who'd be suitable as a composer in his films- those are his babies.. Maybe he might make one that may need ARR's talent in the future. I think that's a fair response.
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From: Mahen on 12th March 2009 12:10 PM [Full View]
That is insulting ARR's talent..Without working with ARR, how he could say that?ARR is not good enough to do music for NK/sethu??
Originally Posted by groucho070
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From: Plum on 12th March 2009 01:53 PM [Full View]
mahen, I know it's hard to take but as a director, you need to choose the crew that you believe can deliver what you want. Without working with ARR, he cannot say empirically that "ARR cannot do this". That is fair enough but as the owner for his product, he might want to take a decision based on past credentials and if he feels ARR doesnt have it for his kind of films, so be it.
ARR himself says he chooses love over hate. That might spill over into his music as well. Bala doesnt gloss over hate. He deals with human emotions as is. Rahman tries hard to suppress emotions of the negative kind. This is just my opinion and rationalisation of Bala's choices and not a reflection of his abilities.
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From: Scale on 12th March 2009 03:13 PM [Full View]
/Dign
Its an insult to himself and not to ARR in any way. Look what he answered to Surya, Vikram they had enormous talent to come up. If they can accomodate your films how dare you say that to ARR without working. Thirundha maataingha! Interviewer vodhaikkanum!
:midf:
/End Dign
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From: MrJudge on 12th March 2009 03:51 PM [Full View]
orE comedy-A irukku....Raaja's music is the best fit for Bala's themes. inga pala pErukku athu innum puriyala pOla irukku. Just watch 'nandhA', it is easily understandable.
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From: P_R on 12th March 2009 04:23 PM [Full View]
Originally Posted by Mahen
Wow.The more I try to prove something, the more I fail.
IdhellAm dhaan proof of the pudding-kku appArppattavai.
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From: Plum on 12th March 2009 06:06 PM [Full View]
"Wow.
IdhellAm dhaan proof of the pudding-kku appArppattavai"
PR, vazhakkam pola, when one of you trinity (pr-compli-eq) post, konaar notes thevai padhudhu. You explain?
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From: sarna_blr on 12th March 2009 06:09 PM [Full View]
Plum, google search yielded below para :P
"The proof of the pudding is in the eating."
It means that the true value or quality of something can
only be judged when it's put to use or tried and tested.
The meaning is often summed up as:
"Results are what count...it's not how you start, but how you finish."
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From: Plum on 12th March 2009 06:11 PM [Full View]
Bala's movies are over-the-top and dont hide any emotion or gloss over any emotion - they dont require polishing - they need the rawness - rawness cannot be moulded or sculpted, which is what Rahman does. So, Bala's statement makes sense, to people who actually understand his movies. Puriyadhavangalukku enna solla?
Secondly, Rahman himself is uncomfortable with negative emotions as he himself says - even for SDM, he said that together he and Danny arrived at a decision to score BGM which didnt reflect the starkness of the images in the movie. Same happened with Rang De Basanti also - this is not an approach which Bala will be comfortable with.
(Ennavo oru pazhaiya indhi paattu ninaivukku varudhu - Samajhne wale samajh gaye hai, na samjhe? na samjhe, woh anari hai)
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From: Plum on 12th March 2009 06:13 PM [Full View]
sarna_blr, appreciate your enthusiasm though that phrase-oda literal meaning was known to me already - enakku avar enna sonnarnu purinjidhu edhukku sonnaru dhaannu puriyalai.
This is where this triumvirate confounds - namma pasanga therinja english-la dhaan pesaranga aanal kooda context puriya maatengudhu
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From: Scale on 12th March 2009 07:54 PM [Full View]
Clowning Judge,
I just watched "Nandha" and the music says its by YSR?
Tell me how did he fit there which others can't?
Plum,
andha support "flaga" konjam arai kambathula thonga vidureengala. So you mean to say Bala have heard about SDM & RDB stories or similar ones earlier and concluded ARR wont fit ....blah...blah..... Fallacy!
Well, thanks for that old hindi song
I will provide you a sample: scintillating and soulful music absolutely no polishing Its from 1996 (not so old) film Andhimandhaarai" If you still prefer a hindi song I can help you with Water, Fire, Earth, etc...
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From: Plum on 12th March 2009 08:06 PM [Full View]
Scale, no offence, but Andhimandhaarai is not an example of what Bala needs. Same with Pavithra's uyirum neeye - Bala is not about soulful etc. It is about dealing with negative emotions plumbing the depths of human mind which is what Bala does. There is a nice, 'moral', establishment view in Andhi Mandhaarai, Pavithra etc. Uyirum Neeye is not very far from Vennila, Vennila from Kaadhal Desam in terms of the emotion invoked. This is not an example of Rahman's ability to plumb the depths of human mind. This doesnt mean that he is not capable - just that there is no existing record of that fact.
Water is closer - thanks, I had forgotten that one. Fire was , how to say this without offending, very very superficial as a background score. So. yeah, if Bala says ARR is not capable of scoring for his movies, that is open to criticism but one can understand why Bala wouldnt want to make that choice.
I'd be glad if Bala is proven wrong on this one.
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From: Scale on 12th March 2009 08:23 PM [Full View]
"Rahman's music would not have worked for my films"
This is utter rubbish! as if ARR have done only Prabhudeva kinda films
Plum,
I was loooking for old tamil song
and AM striked me immediately. I mean the full album without any polishing and the script depth of human minds you are talking about. Unfortunately ARR havent done much tamil music/scripts like bala films. Kannathil Muthamittal stands a testimony: title song, Vellai pookul, vidai kodu, senyore all fits perfectly adhakoodava ketruka maataru. I can even place Duet & Rhythm on a similar scale. 
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From: jaiganes on 13th March 2009 12:18 AM [Full View]
aduththa sindu mudinjutaangaLA.
Thalai ezuththu - engeyum otrumai pudikkaadhe ivanungaLukku. Curious thing is that the interviewer has saved his life by not quoting charu nivedita's comments on music of the film.
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From: crajkumar_be on 13th March 2009 09:07 AM [Full View]
Scale, Originally Posted by Scale
Clowning Judge,
I just watched "Nandha" and the music says its by YSR? Tell me how did he fit there which others can't?
Judge says the opposite. YSR fit aagala nu solraaru
Originally Posted by MrJudge
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From: bimmer on 13th March 2009 09:30 AM [Full View]
-deleted-
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From: Plum on 13th March 2009 09:37 AM [Full View]
Scale, you still didn't get it. KM is the mani brand optimism filled filtered human tragedy. I still maintain ARR has not had opportunity to plumb the depths of human emotions. He has been, wilfully or otherwise, involved with directors whose vision is to sugar coat. There is no sugarcoating with Bala. This is probably what is Bala's thinking.you can criticise bala for that but that is his choice.
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From: crajkumar_be on 13th March 2009 09:46 AM [Full View]
Plum,
While at the "depths" point, i'd urge you not to overlook "Kaana Karunguyile" and the election song "Annan Sethuvukku" and the 'emotions'. Small time landhu doesn't get captured better than this. And then there's "elangaathu veesudhe"... Its not just about kadal aazha sogam or negativity.
Of course, these are about songs. What's more important is the background score and IR's score is the first hero in Bala's films (endha padathula appadi illa nu kekkareengala?)
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From: MrJudge on 13th March 2009 10:45 AM [Full View]
Thanks, Bala. That is what I meant. nandhA didn't appeal to me, I couldn't understand the reason while watched it first time. But a few months back, when I watched it again, I could see the reason. BGM doesn't have that much depth in it. If Raaja would've scored, the movie would be much much better. Originally Posted by crajkumar_be
Scale, Originally Posted by Scale
Clowning Judge,
I just watched "Nandha" and the music says its by YSR? Tell me how did he fit there which others can't?
Judge says the opposite. YSR fit aagala nu solraaru
Originally Posted by MrJudge
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From: Plum on 13th March 2009 10:52 AM [Full View]
"While at the "depths" point, i'd urge you not to overlook "Kaana Karunguyile" and the election song "Annan Sethuvukku" and the 'emotions'. Small time landhu doesn't get captured better than this. And then there's "elangaathu veesudhe"... Its not just about kadal aazha sogam or negativity.
"
Ofcourse, CR. Enna, joy is not difficult to capture for ARRngaradhu ennoda personal opinion. ARR is also very good at invoking "divine", in the sufi way. I still bow to Khwaja mere Khwaja, that one stands up there with Janani Janani. But when it comes to negative emotions, I feel that Rahman's tendency to sugar-coat, probably a cosnequence of working with Mani, and his tendency to look down upon these emotions, I feel that comes in his way of being authentic about these.
Capturing small time landhu - again I will not go into whether Rahman can do this - but agree with you that there is more to Kaana karunguiyile than just being a mere item song. There is the specific rootedness, which you dont even get with the Gaana specialist Deva. This can only be a tamil semi-urban college, this can only be Sethu as defined by his demographic in the movie. I have described this in RS's blog before - that the soundtrack for Sethu is just Sethu's. It cant even sit in Pithamagan - this is where Raja is unsurpassable and this is probably the context of Bala's statement.
About small time landhu, note how Raja captures the same emotion again in Virumandi but in a ultra-rural, specifically maduria suthu vattaram context in Kombula Poova suthi. Indha subtle differences panna vera endha kombanalum mudiyadhu.
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From: MrJudge on 13th March 2009 10:54 AM [Full View]
Originally Posted by jaiganes
charu's biggest problem is he often forgets about who the target audience is. mothalla namma makkaLukku pidikkanum, then we can think about world cinema. Bala definitely should've read his comments about NK, interviewer kEttirunthA summA answer hott-A irunthirukkum.....
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From: Plum on 13th March 2009 10:56 AM [Full View]
judge, with you on Nandha. YSR tries hard but the effort shows. Munpaniya is fantastic but it is just that. You could shift that song to Katradhu Thamizh and net-net, the effect on the movie would be the same. This is the point I was trying to make in the previous post but comparing Rahman makes it politically difficult - I think it is easier to quote Yuvan's failure to explain what I wanted to explain so yeah, thanks for reminding me of Nandha.
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From: sarna_blr on 13th March 2009 11:19 AM [Full View]
dig// Originally Posted by MrJudge
Surya'vOda acting'a (???) paaththu YSR kolambiyiruppaar pOla
//
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From: groucho070 on 13th March 2009 11:31 AM [Full View]
Originally Posted by Plum
There're a lot more I wanted to post, but it will turn into another ugly IR vs ARR debate. Avareey sollitaaru ithellam veenamnu.
Here's how I feel about IR in Bala's films. IR brings with him his own experience, having grown up in that rustic rural environment, being familiar with those sounds plus add to his deep knowledge of carnatic.
And another example. Why would Kamal want to use him in Hey Ram, MX and then wants Rahman for Marmayogi? I bet Kamal himself would have said the same thing. So, ARR not being used for Hey Ram, is that an insult to him?
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From: Plum on 13th March 2009 11:36 AM [Full View]
"So, ARR not being used for Hey Ram, is that an insult to him?
"
yeah, and IR not being used for Marmayogi, is that an insult to him?
The answer to both these questions is No. And one should be able to say these two separately without feeling that one is insulting either of them.
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From: joe on 13th March 2009 11:36 AM [Full View]
Insult-lam illa ..கனியிருப்ப காய் கவர்ந்தற்று -ன்னு கமல் நினைச்சது தான் காரணம். Originally Posted by groucho070
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From: directhit on 13th March 2009 11:41 AM [Full View]
Joe, ippa Marmayogi kkum Kamal adhaye ninaikiraaru pola
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From: joe on 13th March 2009 11:45 AM [Full View]
ஒன்று கனி இப்போதைக்கு சந்தையில் கிடைக்காததால் காய் இருந்தால் போதும் என் நினைத்திருக்கலாம் ..அல்லது இப்போது செய்யப்போகும் பதார்த்ததுக்கு கனியை விட காய் சேர்த்தால் தான் சுவையாக இருக்கும் என்பதால் இருக்கலாம் Originally Posted by directhit
Joe, ippa Marmayogi kkum Kamal adhaye ninaikiraaru pola
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From: Plum on 13th March 2009 11:45 AM [Full View]
Konjam ARR fansku puriyara maadhiri sollanumna, Bala saying ARR doesnt suit his movies is, to me, the same as Rakesh Omprakash Mehra saying that about IR. I dont fundamentally disagree with either of them even though as an IR fan, it is hard to concede that Delhi-6 is something only Rahman can do. If I distill my emotions, that seems the case to me - it seems to me that Delhi-6 is a product of extra-ordinary deliberation, oora potta thoughts, carefully distilled, a product of conscious collobration with the director and other artists, including the singers. I feel IR's spontaneous style and single-sitting soundtracks cannot do justice to something that is so measuredly, and deliberately put together like Delhi-6. IR's music wil paint Delhi-6 differently.
Like I said, I should be able to say this without offending either set of fans. The litmus test is in how the reaction is.
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From: directhit on 13th March 2009 11:48 AM [Full View]
நல்லா சமாளிக்கிறீங்க Originally Posted by joe
ஒன்று கனி இப்போதைக்கு சந்தையில் கிடைக்காததால் காய் இருந்தால் போதும் என் நினைத்திருக்கலாம் ..அல்லது இப்போது செய்யப்போகும் பதார்த்ததுக்கு கனியை விட காய் சேர்த்தால் தான் சுவையாக இருக்கும் என்பதால் இருக்கலாம் Originally Posted by directhit
Joe, ippa Marmayogi kkum Kamal adhaye ninaikiraaru pola - இதற்க்கு பதில் சொல்லி இன்னொரு ரஹ்மான் vs ராஜா சண்டைக்கு வழி வகுக்க இஷ்டமில்லை 
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From: Plum on 13th March 2009 11:48 AM [Full View]
Something like Rang De Basanti, where the vision was to make the BGM score orthogonal to the visuals, if a director says that to IR, I just wonder what our man's reaction to it would be - "loosappa nee" dhaan director kitta ketpaarunu ninaikkaren nammalu
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From: Plum on 13th March 2009 11:50 AM [Full View]
directhit, dhairyama sollunga. Enna solromngaradhai vida, epdi solromngaradhu dhaan sandaikku vazhi vagukkum. Unga thoughts-ai yaraiyum offend pannama solla mudiyumnu nambikkai irundha sollunga. We shouldnt be afraid of debates just because people can misinterpret.
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From: joe on 13th March 2009 11:52 AM [Full View]
சமாளிக்க வேண்டிய அவசியமில்லை ..எனென்றால் இந்த கேள்வி உங்களிடமிருந்து வரூம் என்பது முன்பே தெரியும். Originally Posted by directhit
நல்லா சமாளிக்கிறீங்க Originally Posted by joe
ஒன்று கனி இப்போதைக்கு சந்தையில் கிடைக்காததால் காய் இருந்தால் போதும் என் நினைத்திருக்கலாம் ..அல்லது இப்போது செய்யப்போகும் பதார்த்ததுக்கு கனியை விட காய் சேர்த்தால் தான் சுவையாக இருக்கும் என்பதால் இருக்கலாம் Originally Posted by directhit
Joe, ippa Marmayogi kkum Kamal adhaye ninaikiraaru pola - இதற்க்கு பதில் சொல்லி இன்னொரு ரஹ்மான் vs ராஜா சண்டைக்கு வழி வகுக்க இஷ்டமில்லை
சரி .. பாய்ஸ் படம் எடுத்துக்கொண்டிருக்கும் போது ஷங்கரிடம் இதற்கு ஏன் இளையராஜாவை இசையமைக்க வைக்கவில்லையென கேட்க அவர் "இந்த படத்தை பொறுத்தவரை இளையராஜாவின் இசை பொருத்தமாக இருக்காது" என்று சொல்லியிருந்தால் நான் கண்டிப்பாக அவர் இளையராஜாவை அவமதித்ததாக கருதமாட்டேன்.
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From: directhit on 13th March 2009 11:59 AM [Full View]
என்னை பொறுத்த வரை பாலா சொன்னதில் தவறு இருப்பதாக தெரியவில்லை. ஒரு இயக்குனர் என்ற நிலையில் அவரது கருத்து அது. அவரை போலவே திறமை வாய்ந்த/மிகுந்த இயக்குனர்கள் மாற்று கருத்துடனும் உள்ளனர். Originally Posted by joe
என்னுடைய எதிர்ப்பு உங்கள் 'கனியிருப்ப' வார்த்தைகளுக்கு மட்டுமே
plum - thanks, but not interested specially coz i dont feel what bala said was demeaning in any way to ARR. I was jus referring to Joe's words/context in particular
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From: joe on 13th March 2009 12:07 PM [Full View]
அதில் எந்த தவறும் இல்லை .எல்லோருக்கும் முதல் தேர்வு ,இரண்டாம் தேர்வு என்று இருக்கிறது ..சினிமா பார்க்க செல்லும் போது நான் கமல் படம் ஓடுகிறது என்றால் அதைத் தான் பார்ப்பேன் .கமல் படம் ஓடவில்லையென்றால் அடுத்த தேர்வு ரஜினி தான் ..எனக்கு கமல் கனியாகவும் (முதல் தேர்வு) ரஜினி காயாகவும் (இரண்டாம் தேர்வு) இருப்பது போல இன்னொருவருக்கு ரஜினி கனியாகவும் கமல் காயாகவும் இருக்கலாம் . Originally Posted by directhit
என்னுடைய எதிர்ப்பு உங்கள் 'கனியிருப்ப' வார்த்தைகளுக்கு மட்டுமே
அதற்காக கனி சாப்பிடுபவர்கள் காய் சாப்பிடவே மாட்டார்கள் என்று அர்த்தமில்லை ..கனி கிடைக்காத நேரத்தில் காயும் சாப்பிடுவார்கள் .
கமல் ,பாலா போன்றவர்களுக்கு இளையராஜா கனி ..ஷங்கர் போன்றவர்களுக்கு ரகுமான் கனி ..இதில் யார் மீதும் தப்பு இல்லை.
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From: groucho070 on 13th March 2009 12:16 PM [Full View]
Appadi poodungga Joe.
Except I have conflict when it comes to Kamal and Rajini and thank god, they are releasing films at different time.
But you are right, to each his own. Plus success factor onnu irukku. If Gentleman was a flop, with no tapes selling, Shankar may have changed his mind...in fact, it could have even affected the type of films he would be making there onwards (lots of money would have been saved).
IR played huge part in Kamal and Bala's film, as did ARR in Shankar and Mani's film. Their composition were integral to those respective films and the directors would definitely have these respective composers in mind when they are thinking of the next film. I bet, even if Bala is open about ARR in the future, he is making his next film, in his mind, with IR in it.
Hell, there are many directors out there who are thinking of their next films with either IR or ARR, whomever they prefer, Kani or Kaaiy, in their mind. But unfortunately, most have to settle for plastic fruits.
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From: joe on 13th March 2009 12:19 PM [Full View]
Originally Posted by groucho070
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From: directhit on 13th March 2009 12:23 PM [Full View]
Joe, பாலா விஷயத்தில் (காயாக அவர் நினைப்பதை உபயோகிக்காததால்) ஏற்றுகொள்ளகூடியதே . கமல் விஷயத்தில் முதல் தேர்வு இரண்டாம் தேர்வு என பிரித்தல் அவ்வளவு எளிதல்ல (அவருடைய தனிப்பட்ட விருப்பத்தை விடுங்கள் - நம்ம கௌதம் சார் க்கு கூட ராஜா தான் பிரியமாம் :P). வியாபார நோக்கங்களை காரணமாக கூறினாலும் இரண்டாம் தேர்வு என்பது இங்கே சரியான பதமாக படவில்லை. கமலின் 'தற்போதைய' பேட்டிகளே அதற்க்கு ஒரு சான்று
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From: Scale on 13th March 2009 12:26 PM [Full View]
Thanks CR & Judge. I stand corrected!
Well I am not going to get into the aspect of analyzing Bala's movies/songs and digress further. He do have all polishing works, commercial elements added to it item number, medley, intro song, untoothed comedy,.....
And I am not so scruffy to deny Raja's supremacy over 3 decades. Infact Raaja songs/music illaina pala directorsku appave thindattam thaan athuvum balavukku yervaadila token vaanga vendiyadhu dhaan. koravalaya kadichi thuppirupaaingha. While Sethu itself a ode to his style of film making(BM's school) and he should have stopped there and tried different genres. Look what Ameer did with PV after Raam, Ameer solliripparunnu nenaikireenghala) . Sethu is a fantastic soundtrack and plum have explained very beautifully My fav is UK song but Raja have surpassed that meridians with Nan Kadavul! If YSR can try that hard why not ARR provided an oppurtunity. Jagjith singh sonna maathiri irukku. Well I stick to the same notion and ask have you heard to his other works?
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From: directhit on 13th March 2009 12:26 PM [Full View]
sari - i think this whole discussion based on what bala said abt his music dir choice for his films is meaningless IMO. Naan kadavul padatha pathi pesuvom
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From: Scale on 13th March 2009 12:31 PM [Full View]
Joe,
Leave IR everyone respects his works, Havent worked with him is for commercial aspects and its a different topic.
YSR pathi kettirundha Shankar ippadi sollirukka maattaru "YSR music have not worked for my films Gentleman to "Shivaji". Thats the difference! He should have simply avoided that question in a diplomatic way like what he did to Vikram/Surya comparison. And it is damn Director's job to extract the best out of any composer/technicians/actors. summa vothu varathunnu nenaichirundha sethu wouldnt have come from the producer. IR appadi nenachirundha Bala vandhurukku mudiyadhu! History have proved this at several times.
End Dign/
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From: Plum on 13th March 2009 12:57 PM [Full View]
" He do have all polishing works, commercial elements added to it item number, medley, intro song, untoothed comedy,..... "
I dont have anything new to say on this but Scale, this is where you need to understand that Bala subverts these same commercial elements to suit his vision. Yes, it is there but it is not strait-jacketed, there is a subversion there - his commercial elements are built in and are not polished - they are absolutely raw -vide the Kovai kamala song in Sethu. yes, it is an item number, yes, it is a commercial compromise, but you cannot score Shakalaka Baby there. Or Anjala. Or Kathazha Kannala. Kovai Kamala's raw, unpolished voice is left there - if Rahman does it, we'll hear differetn layers added there to Kamala's voice and a polished version is what you will hear. This is Rahman's musical philosophy as he has explicitly and implicitly outlined many times. This just doesnt suit Bala - who wants his commercial compromises but with the clever subversions built in. I guess both of them will understand that.
Again, if you can think of why IR's music making process and style doesnt suit Shankar or Omprakash Mehra, you'll be able to reconcile. Retrospective polishing is something Mehra badly needs for his vision - and who else other than Rahman who naturally provides that for him?
I'd prefer if Bala is undiplomatic and puts it the way he has put it - it shows he knows what he wants from his music director - apdi sollama irundha dhaan, I'd doubt his musical sense. For all the insinuations on lack of musical scope in Bala's movie, this tells me that Bala knows exactly what he wants as music for his movies.
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From: sarna_blr on 13th March 2009 01:02 PM [Full View]
Plum, ammaam pEttE ayyam pEttE, diyOnaa diyOnaa diyO-naanaa-naa , kokku saiva kokku etc songs ellaam kEttadhu illayaa
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From: joe on 13th March 2009 01:12 PM [Full View]
OK .I can say that Bala kitta ARR-kku pathila YSR pathi kettirunthaalum ithe thaan solliruppar ..That is the difference. Originally Posted by Scale
Bala no need to be diplomatic as his movies also not diplomatic.
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From: Plum on 13th March 2009 01:21 PM [Full View]
sarna, adhu apdi thaan. Explain panna mudiyaadhu. I think the petta rap is quite a sophisticated musical piece, a gaana rap as it were. But that still doesnt fit in for Sethu - Sethu is a flesh and blood person, prabhu deva in Kaadhalan is a make-believe college going lad. If Petta Rap fits Sethu, then it means Rahman didnt do his job for Kaadhalan correctly. Fortunately, it doesnt and that tells me Rahman did his job for Kaadhalan correctly.
Kokku saiva kokku - unless someone points me to any merits - has no merit in my eyes in any terms.
I'll be quite happy if Rahman comes out of his studio and does a Bala film on Bala's terms - that will tell us what Rahman is without his tools - and I do have enough respect for him to believe that he will be quite something even if you take away the panchathan tools from him.
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From: Scale on 13th March 2009 01:31 PM [Full View]
I have made my point clearly: Bala have every right to criticize YSR because he worked with him (I dont know what he said about YSR during Nandha release sure he wouldnt have said no he didnt fit in) Judge says he's not satisfied.. Plum said he tried it really hard...and thanks to all other apprizing views by plum incontrast with DB/Shankar/ROM works alone does sound too bigoted and we hope like always ARR takes this criticism on a positive note and work more films like Water, Zubeida, TLOBS! I loved this discussions and lets end it right here. Thanks!
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From: MrJudge on 13th March 2009 02:54 PM [Full View]
Yes, Plum. Though Yuvan tried his best for nandhA, he failed in the re-recording. I don't have any problems with the songs (keeping in mind that he was just 20 at that time). After watched sEthu kind of drama, obviously fans like me expected so much in nandhA. I can say that.Raaja would've elevated the emotional content of the film so much and done some damage control if he was the MD. Originally Posted by Plum
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From: crajkumar_be on 13th March 2009 05:45 PM [Full View]
Plum,
Nalla posts
I think the petta rap is quite a sophisticated musical piece, a gaana rap as it were. But that still doesnt fit in for Sethu - Sethu is a flesh and blood person, prabhu deva in Kaadhalan is a make-believe college going lad. If Petta Rap fits Sethu, then it means Rahman didnt do his job for Kaadhalan correctly. Fortunately, it doesnt and that tells me Rahman did his job for Kaadhalan correctly.
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From: crajkumar_be on 13th March 2009 05:46 PM [Full View]
Exactly what i had said in RS's blog Originally Posted by Plum
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From: viraajan on 13th March 2009 05:56 PM [Full View]
// dig (aanadhu aachu... indha oru dig mattum Originally Posted by MrJudge
That's a good point actually. Yuvan was young and he had delivered the best he could. I'm sure; in case, Bala opts YSR for his forthcoming movies, yuvan, at this stature, would come up with extraordinary score...//
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From: Plum on 13th March 2009 06:00 PM [Full View]
CR, danks ma. I might have been influenced by your post in RS's blog as well subconsciously(bloody plagiarism - kutti chuvaru arattai-la kooda mookai nuzhaikkudhu!)
Viraajan, ennai porutha varaikkum edhuvume digression illai. One thing leads to another - as long as the discussion is healthy and the exchange of ideas is fun, there shouldnt be a problem.
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From: MADDY on 13th March 2009 06:24 PM [Full View]
Rahman has done that quite number of times - there are lot of songs where he had just composed music with minimal configuration.....he has dealt with "negative emotions" too in a chilling way with just vocals,tabla, base,rythm - refer Dil se BGM........ Originally Posted by crajkumar_be
Exactly what i had said in RS's blog Originally Posted by Plum
btw, i would also love to see IR working in a Anurag Kashyap movie pumping rock music from electronic tools cutting into synth riffs and fusion music.......i'm quite sure Ilayaraja is quite capable of using electronic stuff and can rock in a stylized urban theme....urban means sugarcoat
but dont worry, sugar is not white in Anurag's movies
reg Bala's comment - he is a IR fan and he has to speak like that......if i were a director - i would have loved to reply "who illayaraja?" i dunno wats the big fuss in this
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From: Vivasaayi on 13th March 2009 06:40 PM [Full View]
ARR's music would fit any movies...but the sound of ARR music which I really doubt about fitting Balas movies.
In moives like kilakku cheemayile,the movie had great songs...but they dint gimme the feel of the village like rajas songs do...I couldnt put exactly what i wanna mean - by village feel...its like ur native village comes for a second in ur mind when u hear few rajas pieces.The streets and stuffs of the village.
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From: MrJudge on 13th March 2009 08:00 PM [Full View]
I am confident that Yuvan can't deliver what Raaja delivers for Bala's films even if Bala comes to Yuvan say after 10 or 20 years. I will be happy if I am proved wrong. Originally Posted by viraajan
The knowledge and experience Raaja possess makes the difference, his music is so close to the culture of this land. Bala's themes which deal with the people of this land need Raaja's scores. OTOH, take GVM, though he is a big fan of Raaja, he doesn't need him at all, any composer will fit in his movies. Yuvan will certainly provide extra-ordinary score if he works for GVM.
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From: MrJudge on 13th March 2009 08:04 PM [Full View]
Plum,
Yeah.... as Bala said good posts by you, I like reading them.
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From: viraajan on 13th March 2009 08:41 PM [Full View]
Be happy that he dint reply "who is ARR" :P Originally Posted by MADDY
reg Bala's comment - he is a IR fan and he has to speak like that......if i were a director - i would have loved to reply "who illayaraja?" i dunno wats the big fuss in this
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From: MADDY on 13th March 2009 08:51 PM [Full View]
//oru chinna doubt - general-aana question dhaan to all raaja rasigars.......how is bach-style WCM orchestrations, bass guitars "close" to Tamil culture?? or am i missing something here? i find it hard to accept when raaja fans call IR very "rooted" when he has bloody broken the barriers in many ways......i think this concept of "music of the soil" "close to culture" are mere perceptions.......i think raaja has customised things to a great extent.......i dont think he has given real tamil folk music as it is// Originally Posted by MrJudge
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From: ajaybaskar on 13th March 2009 10:29 PM [Full View]
Vivasaayi... I understand the village feel that you meant. I would recommend you to listen to Pushpavanam Kuppusamy and Vijayalakshmi Navaneethakrishnan... I am sure you'l get more of that village feel, probably more than IR. Originally Posted by Vivasaayi
(I know you have a reply popping up in your mind... That reply would have the key for ARR not able to bring the village feel)
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From: sarna_blr on 13th March 2009 10:33 PM [Full View]
karuththamma padam ellaam neenga paakkalayO Originally Posted by Vivasaayi
kizhakku cheemayilE songs village feeling tharalainu solradha hub'la mattum dhaan paakkamudiyum
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From: MrJudge on 13th March 2009 10:36 PM [Full View]
Originally Posted by viraajan
Be happy that he dint reply "who is ARR" :P Originally Posted by MADDY
reg Bala's comment - he is a IR fan and he has to speak like that......if i were a director - i would have loved to reply "who illayaraja?" i dunno wats the big fuss in this If I were the director, I would have replied for sure!
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From: sarna_blr on 13th March 2009 10:37 PM [Full View]
adhanaala dhaana neenga director aagala Originally Posted by MrJudge
Originally Posted by viraajan
Be happy that he dint reply "who is ARR" :P Originally Posted by MADDY
reg Bala's comment - he is a IR fan and he has to speak like that......if i were a director - i would have loved to reply "who illayaraja?" i dunno wats the big fuss in this If I were the director, I would have replied for sure! :P j/k
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From: MrJudge on 13th March 2009 10:39 PM [Full View]
neenga innum romba thooram pOga vEndi irukku. Originally Posted by sarna_blr
karuththamma padam ellaam neenga paakkalayO
kizhakku cheemayilE songs village feeling tharalainu solradha hub'la mattum dhaan paakkamudiyum
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From: MrJudge on 13th March 2009 10:46 PM [Full View]
That is the genius of Raaja. Even if he follows WCM style orchestration or uses bass guitars, his music sounds like it belongs to this land. Let me put it the other way, his music sounds less alien than any other MDs music. Originally Posted by MADDY
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From: sarna_blr on 13th March 2009 10:49 PM [Full View]
enna oru 500 km irukkumaa Originally Posted by MrJudge
neenga innum romba thooram pOga vEndi irukku. Originally Posted by sarna_blr
karuththamma padam ellaam neenga paakkalayO
kizhakku cheemayilE songs village feeling tharalainu solradha hub'la mattum dhaan paakkamudiyum
naanum raajaa-rasigan dhaanunga
but kanoodiththanamaana rasigan alla :P
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From: MrJudge on 13th March 2009 10:54 PM [Full View]
free-A vidunga Originally Posted by sarna_blr
enna oru 500 km irukkumaa
naanum raajaa-rasigan dhaanunga but kanoodiththanamaana rasigan alla :P
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From: rajasaranam on 13th March 2009 11:16 PM [Full View]
Bala's Naan KAdavul 3 Ivaalavu pakkam Odutha
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From: complicateur on 14th March 2009 01:31 AM [Full View]
I actually have to agree with MADDY to a small extent. To claim BAlA would go to rAjA because of the rootedness in his music is quite reductive. While rAjA has done real tamil folk music (sample: karumAththUr kAttukkuLLE in VirumANdi) this 'rootedness' associated with him is to a certain an inextricable function of the circumstances of introduction to his work. Originally Posted by MADDY
His popular melodies are rAgA based. Even his early cross-over work is essentially that by nature - fusing a melody quite Indian with western orchestration - indicating that is what he identified as his 'sound' at the time of creating those albums. But this is not always the case. Listening to The Music Messiah will reveal he isn't averse to the synth. Germanyin SenthEn malarE does not sound like it could be sung in a varappu.
However, technical musical analysis neglects rAjA's understanding of the material. RAjA's soundscape most times is far ahead of what director's brought him barring of course the few notable exceptions. A connection to rAjA's music is a connection to a facet of him. And by 'connection' I dont just mean some sort of 'spiritual' connection. Even his playful nature is accessible - just listen to the guitar distortion in MuththAduthEy MuhthAduthEy vAnam or any of the 'matter songs' eq. refers to in the Last song listened to thread. This 'accessibility' is IMO more relevant than the 'rootedness'.
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From: jaiganes on 14th March 2009 02:11 AM [Full View]
karumaththur song is not by raaja.
it was by an actual troupe whose name is listed in the CD.
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From: Hulkster on 14th March 2009 07:37 AM [Full View]
Why did the mods delete my post? i just stated what all directors who go to IR say when they are asked this question.
Whenever a director has a film they feel which has complications and has not so straightforward scenes they go to IR. IR's understanding of a film is such that he knows the timing, type of orchestration to elevate the film by notches whether it is a village type or urban type. It even corrects the film's flaws which is amazing by itself. Nowadays alot of directors pay attention to Background score which is why IR is in demand. Why would you want to go to another composer when you have someone whose music bridges the connection between the film and the viewer and that too without even pushing him.
The best answer to why Bala did not go to ARR is Maniratnam's answer when asked about him working with these two composers.
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From: rajasaranam on 14th March 2009 07:42 AM [Full View]
JG,
Karumaaththur was composed by Raaja and sung by 'Thiruvadiyaan troupe and chorus, you can also hear periya karuppa thevar's (Singer & Actor) voice in that song very clearly.
The first time ever something like Raaja didnt compose happened in 'Nandalala' for the Gypsy song.
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From: Vivasaayi on 14th March 2009 07:59 AM [Full View]
may i know what is that Originally Posted by Hulkster
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From: Hulkster on 14th March 2009 08:17 AM [Full View]
This is what he said. It is not the whole article but the most relevant to the question posed here.
In fact, initially he had go through a culture shock, when Rehman was signed up for 'Roja'. Ilayaraja, once he made up his mind, would not make too many changes. With Rehman, it was different. He would keep adding to the song.
However, Mani Ratnam, put Ilayaraja on a higher pedestal, and lavished praise on the maestro's re-recording, so important for a film. Ilayaraja would look at the scene once, and immediately start giving notes to his assistants, as a bunch of musicians, hovering around him, would collect the notes for their instrument and go to their places. When the orchestra played out the notes, they would be perfect, not just in harmony but also in timing - the background score would commence exactly where it should and end at the exact place required, pointed out Mani Ratnam, amidst applause. Ilayaraja was a genius, he said, who could compose music with just one look at the scene.
However, for a director, there was just one handicap. "Ilayaraja will listen to you as you explain the scene, and what he intends to convey. Once the film rolls, Ilayaraja's gaze will be on the screen and a few seconds later, papers would go to the musicians giving them the score, and then there would be no further changes. A director can be taken by surprise at the speed of events. If at all you want to convey anything to Ilayaraja, it must be before he watches the shot (before the background score is added) on to the screen," said Mani amidst both laughter and applause.
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From: complicateur on 14th March 2009 09:39 AM [Full View]
Thanks for the clarifications Jai & RS.
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From: A.ANAND on 14th March 2009 11:48 AM [Full View]
intha vishayathai yenn'ppa aalallukku ippadi varuthu edukarinnga
bala comment-la thappa ethum sollala!
my be future-la arr work panna balavukkum aasai irukkum!future-la ethuvum nadakakalam! ennaku ennamo bala -arr combination kudiya seekiran nadakam innu thonuthu!
mods please lock this topic!
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From: mexicomeat on 14th March 2009 11:52 AM [Full View]
ARR is good but his music is not suitable for all kind of movies.
I felt that his background music for karuthamma and kizhakku seemayile were out of place.
It was like eating chicken biriyani cooked by a western chef.
Similarly, ilayaraja's music too seems out of place in some movies. For example, I cant imagine how IR would have done Oru Koodai Sunlight / Taxi kinda songs.
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From: viraajan on 14th March 2009 11:54 AM [Full View]
Originally Posted by Vivasaayi
my thought...
Music of Karuthamma, KZ had village'ish sounds... but the "Feel" was there only to some extent... it wasn't complete.... where as in any IR music for village subject, you'll get the feel of visiting a village...
I'm not putting down ARR here... I'm just telling that IR is better (the best) in giving the village feel...
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From: mexicomeat on 14th March 2009 11:56 AM [Full View]
On a totally unrelated mater, do you guys remember the "Hey Hey Hey" theme music of rajni
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRNzMEZ04Sw
This was originally composed by Deva (for Annamalai). Needless to say, this music was appreciated by all and Rajni wanted to use the same theme music henceforth.
But IR didn't agree. He came up with his own music for the Rajni title for the movie Veera.
See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtlAu2wAj5A (00:44 minutes)
I think IR's version was crap.
However, Rehman did not have any concerns when Rajni asked him to use Deva's theme music for Muthu.
Infact if you see Muthu's opening, it starts with IR's music (Agara Mudala Ezhuthellam.........) followed by Deva's music (Rajni Theme Music) and then followed by ARR's music (for the title)
Rehman used it again in Baba and Padayappa .
Vidyasagar didn't have any issues reusing Deva's music in Chandramukhi.
During sivaji shoot, shankar wanted to modernize the title graphics and music and went for this version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NG_Gx0EjHV4
Which was awesome.
Then, GV Prakash came up with this crappy version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bae13_1cbck
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From: sgokulprathap on 14th March 2009 11:58 AM [Full View]
idhukku oru thani thread. adhuvum 6 pages pOyiduchu.
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From: viraajan on 14th March 2009 12:05 PM [Full View]
It's not like that Sarna... Originally Posted by sarna_blr
karuththamma padam ellaam neenga paakkalayO Originally Posted by Vivasaayi
kizhakku cheemayilE songs village feeling tharalainu solradha hub'la mattum dhaan paakkamudiyum
I'll tell you why...... "Porale ponnuthaayi" may sound like a village song... you get such a feel mainly coz of the lyrics and the wordings...
I don;t know if you know this. ARR has used the same Porale Ponnuthaayi tune for a song in Vandhemathram album with a change in the orchestration. The song goes like this "chanda suraj..." The change in the orchestration has made it a "non-village" tune. it sounded like an English song (I love the song ). So if you see, the main reason you get the "village feel" in karuthamma song is the wordings.
I'm not sure how well the same (changing the orchestration) would work in case of any village song of IR. It's his strength!!! (Though I don't know much about music)
Just I felt this!!!
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From: MrJudge on 14th March 2009 12:23 PM [Full View]
May be....... when Bala wants to retire, he will go to him and the job will be done. Originally Posted by A.ANAND
ellAththaiyum izhuththu moodungappA. Originally Posted by A.ANAND
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From: jaaze on 14th March 2009 12:25 PM [Full View]
exactly Originally Posted by MrJudge
ellAththaiyum izhuththu moodungappA. Originally Posted by A.ANAND
ithut theviyallatha topic
yerkanave ARR thread-layum Bala thread-layum velaasu velassunu velasiyachu.
ippo ethukku B-ARR thread puthusa?
Mods vaanga poottu podalam
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From: sgokulprathap on 14th March 2009 12:32 PM [Full View]
adhu varaikum chat pannalAm. Originally Posted by jaaze
Mods vaanga poottu podalam
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From: A.ANAND on 14th March 2009 01:24 PM [Full View]
pithamagan oda avaru attiyayam,retire ellam mudinjathu! Originally Posted by MrJudge
May be....... when Bala wants to retire, he will go to him and the job will be done. Originally Posted by A.ANAND
ellAththaiyum izhuththu moodungappA. Originally Posted by A.ANAND
pathi 'ara kirukkan' padam eduthathatu pothum,inemelavathu subramanyapuram,paruthiveeran,mozhi,anjathey,xct.. .pondra sama kaala padangala kodukkanum!
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From: jaaze on 14th March 2009 01:58 PM [Full View]
I read it like this Originally Posted by A.ANAND
pithamagan oda avaru attiyayam,retire ellam mudinjathu! Originally Posted by MrJudge
May be....... when Bala wants to retire, he will go to him and the job will be done. Originally Posted by A.ANAND
ellAththaiyum izhuththu moodungappA. Originally Posted by A.ANAND
pathi 'ara kirukkan' padam eduthathatu pothum,inemelavathu subramanyapuram,paruthiveeran,mozhi,anjathey,xct.. .pondra sama kaala padangala kodukkanum!
pathi 'ara kirukkan' padam eduthathatu pothum,inemelavathu subramanyapuram,paruthiveeran,mozhi,anjathey,xct.. .pondra sarna kaala padangala kodukkanum!
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From: A.ANAND on 14th March 2009 02:06 PM [Full View]
jaaze sir! not sarna,sama kaala![today's life]
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From: joe on 14th March 2009 02:18 PM [Full View]
Anand,
Yen bala mela intha kolai veRi ?
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From: A.ANAND on 14th March 2009 02:34 PM [Full View]
Originally Posted by joe
Anand,
Yen bala mela intha kolai veRi ?
avar vittiyasamana director than,but athai nirubikka menndum meendum naan kadavul thevaiya???innum ethanai naalaiku intha mathiriyana padangalaiye koduppar??boring!inthala irunthu veli vanthu innum diffrent movie kodukkanum avar!!mattabadi bala mela entha kola veri-yum illa!
i'm also bala fan!
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From: A.ANAND on 14th March 2009 02:45 PM [Full View]
sethu - vikram 'paithiyam'
nanda - surya 'rawdy'
pithamagan - vikram 'paathi kirukan'
naan kadavul - arya 'paathi kirukku samiyar'
innu yaar yaaru ellam kirukan,paithiyam bala voda hit list irukarangalo!andava!
ippadi ellam oru weird movie koduthuthan nalla director-raga nirubikka vendiya avasiyam illa unngalukku!unngalalukku neengale pottukira vattata vittu veliya vaanga sir!nichayam unggala mozhi,marupadiyum,veedu pondra padanggal ungalala kodukka mudiyum!
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From: joe on 14th March 2009 02:50 PM [Full View]
Anand,
Though I don't agree with you fully on your claim on bala being streotype ,I heard Bala mentioned he wanted to do a typical commercial movie in near future ..So unga aasai niRaiveRattum
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From: A.ANAND on 14th March 2009 02:55 PM [Full View]
antha naalaithan naan aavaludan ethir paarkiren sir! Originally Posted by joe
Anand,
Though I don't agree with you fully on your claim on bala being streotype ,I heard Bala mentioned he wanted to do a typical commercial movie in near future ..So unga aasai niRaiveRattum
early waiting 4 bala and arr combination!
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From: rajasaranam on 14th March 2009 05:57 PM [Full View]
Shankar-Raaja Combination varum bodhu Bala-Raaja combination nichayam varum Originally Posted by A.ANAND
antha naalaithan naan aavaludan ethir paarkiren sir! Originally Posted by joe
Anand,
Though I don't agree with you fully on your claim on bala being streotype ,I heard Bala mentioned he wanted to do a typical commercial movie in near future ..So unga aasai niRaiveRattum
early waiting 4 bala and arr combination!
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From: MrJudge on 14th March 2009 06:16 PM [Full View]
athu Shankar Bala mAthiri padam edukkupOthu nichayam niRaivERum Originally Posted by rajasaranam
Shankar-Raaja Combination varum bodhu Bala-Raaja combination nichayam varum Originally Posted by A.ANAND
antha naalaithan naan aavaludan ethir paarkiren sir! Originally Posted by joe
Anand,
Though I don't agree with you fully on your claim on bala being streotype ,I heard Bala mentioned he wanted to do a typical commercial movie in near future ..So unga aasai niRaiveRattum
early waiting 4 bala and arr combination!
Even if he goes for commercial film, I think he will stick with Yuvan. And I don't think he'll cross the line.
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From: sarna_blr on 14th March 2009 06:44 PM [Full View]
new thread
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From: Thalafanz on 14th March 2009 08:02 PM [Full View]
Seriously, I can't believe this is coming from u... Originally Posted by A.ANAND
antha naalaithan naan aavaludan ethir paarkiren sir! Originally Posted by joe
Anand,
Though I don't agree with you fully on your claim on bala being streotype ,I heard Bala mentioned he wanted to do a typical commercial movie in near future ..So unga aasai niRaiveRattum
early waiting 4 bala and arr combination!
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From: Thalafanz on 14th March 2009 08:08 PM [Full View]
If he replied something like that, the whole WORLD would have laughed at him leave alone TFI. Originally Posted by viraajan
Be happy that he dint reply "who is ARR" :P Originally Posted by MADDY
reg Bala's comment - he is a IR fan and he has to speak like that......if i were a director - i would have loved to reply "who illayaraja?" i dunno wats the big fuss in this
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From: jaaze on 14th March 2009 09:44 PM [Full View]
I was about to say this after reading Anand's post Originally Posted by joe
Anand,
I heard Bala mentioned he wanted to do a typical commercial movie in near future ..So unga aasai niRaiveRattum
I agree with Anand though
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From: A.ANAND on 14th March 2009 09:45 PM [Full View]
unnga kobam puriyuthu thala!but i thought he[bala] also rahman fan!iilayaraja HC fan-na iruntha 'anti arr'-ra irukanum innu avasiyam illaye!illayaraja-ve namma thalaivara 'phenomenal'innu pugalthutaru. Originally Posted by Thalafanz
If he replied something like that, the whole WORLD would have laughed at him leave alone TFI. Originally Posted by viraajan
Be happy that he dint reply "who is ARR" :P Originally Posted by MADDY
reg Bala's comment - he is a IR fan and he has to speak like that......if i were a director - i would have loved to reply "who illayaraja?" i dunno wats the big fuss in this itha vida vera enna venum!ir kitta irunthu intha varthaiya vangarathu avalo easy-ya??
arr oscar win panna bothu 'naan kadavul'unit arr -ikku wish kuda pannangga!
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From: A.ANAND on 14th March 2009 09:50 PM [Full View]
ennamo bala arr combination vantha raja fans Originally Posted by rajasaranam
Shankar-Raaja Combination varum bodhu Bala-Raaja combination nichayam varum Originally Posted by A.ANAND
antha naalaithan naan aavaludan ethir paarkiren sir! Originally Posted by joe
Anand,
Though I don't agree with you fully on your claim on bala being streotype ,I heard Bala mentioned he wanted to do a typical commercial movie in near future ..So unga aasai niRaiveRattum
early waiting 4 bala and arr combination!
ellam 'tharkolai'pannikira mathiri illa pesurinnga!
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From: jaaze on 14th March 2009 09:53 PM [Full View]
IR vs ARR thread-a maarikittu varuthu intha thread
Mods enna pannureenga
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From: jaiganes on 15th March 2009 07:20 AM [Full View]
Instead of spewing venom against the director who is know to say things that immediately come to his mind in a personal interview, the person to be bashed up is the interviewer - who put in enough leading questions (about slumdog and ARR) to provoke something and sensationalize. Having said that Bala should know that interviews to media must be carefully planned. He is successful today - but must guard himself against uncontrolled words. I would rather have him make good movies and let the speaking to someone else.
I recollect a communications workshop that I attended where I was taught to use the word 'interesting' instead of 'awful' or 'I dont like it'.
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From: joe on 15th March 2009 10:29 AM [Full View]
Is it going to create third world war ? Originally Posted by jaaze
IR vs ARR thread-a maarikittu varuthu intha thread
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From: jaaze on 15th March 2009 10:39 AM [Full View]
Athu naan solla thevaiyilla. NOV kitta kettu paarunga Originally Posted by joe
Is it going to create third world war ? Originally Posted by jaaze
IR vs ARR thread-a maarikittu varuthu intha thread
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From: MADDY on 15th March 2009 11:07 AM [Full View]
Plum, request you to verify with rahman fans before making such "conclusions".......if u cant find "pathos" in the below piece, then i'll buy you a drink in Geofferys,Chennai Originally Posted by Plum
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdEcNe0wrwU
just listen to this piece with pichhai pathiram visuals
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGvxFhDbCa0
it just matches perfectly.....agreed, it is high on opera and low on tabla, gatam, bell sounds but i would be lying if i say it didnt evoke the "pathos" feel that IR's song evoked........its bala's choice to go with IR's style......its nothing like ARR cant do this type of music :P
i had the "privilege" of living in Mumbai but i didnt know wat was the "sound of mumbai" and i still dont know.......i never knew that a african style music would be so haunting and so apt for mumbai slums(read: o saya in SDM).......i'm very sure that no one can "define" sounds/music of a land - because there are no parameters - music cannot be restricted to parameters as small as for a city or a state.....
maybe using veena, tabla, gatam, bells and basing music on Indian raagas can be called "Indian"......but what is south indian music then?? is tabla a north indian instrument or south indian instrument? even if a song is based out of "carnatic" raagas - does it mean it represents the music of tamilnadu?
IR music is "coveniently" "considered" as tamil music, music of this land etc........as ajay said - "pushpavanam" etc are more tamil than IR in that case.........
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From: ajaybaskar on 15th March 2009 11:21 AM [Full View]
MADDY...I am proud to be your fellow hubber, fellow rahmaniac, and above all....your friend..
I have not seen a better reply than this....
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From: VENKIRAJA on 15th March 2009 11:32 AM [Full View]
Go on. Say that Thiruvasagam doesn't evoke any 'divine feel', 'Bhakthi' in you. And please do add that it is conviniently considered as holy. Originally Posted by MADDY
Plum, request you to verify with rahman fans before making such "conclusions".......if u cant find "pathos" in the below piece, then i'll buy you a drink in Geofferys,Chennai Originally Posted by Plum
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdEcNe0wrwU
just listen to this piece with pichhai pathiram visuals
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGvxFhDbCa0
it just matches perfectly.....agreed, it is high on opera and low on tabla, gatam, bell sounds but i would be lying if i say it didnt evoke the "pathos" feel that IR's song evoked........its bala's choice to go with IR's style......its nothing like ARR cant do this type of music :P
i had the "privilege" of living in Mumbai but i didnt know wat was the "sound of mumbai" and i still dont know.......i never knew that a african style music would be so haunting and so apt for mumbai slums(read: o saya in SDM).......i'm very sure that no one can "define" sounds/music of a land - because there are no parameters - music cannot be restricted to parameters as small as for a city or a state.....
maybe using veena, tabla, gatam, bells and basing music on Indian raagas can be called "Indian"......but what is south indian music then?? is tabla a north indian instrument or south indian instrument? even if a song is based out of "carnatic" raagas - does it mean it represents the music of tamilnadu?
IR music is "coveniently" "considered" as tamil music, music of this land etc........as ajay said - "pushpavanam" etc are more tamil than IR in that case.........
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From: jaaze on 15th March 2009 11:46 AM [Full View]
Originally Posted by ajaybaskar
MADDY...I am proud to be your fellow hubber, fellow rahmaniac, and above all....your friend..
I have not seen a better reply than this.... 
Maddy
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From: ajaybaskar on 15th March 2009 11:53 AM [Full View]
Venki, MADDY has made his point clear... People are sticking to a definite structure and have given a name to it.. (Holy, Village feel, etc,etc). But music has no barriers or definitions. Only when there is a change, music tastes good. Will IR adapt the same style to bring the "Village feel" to all the village based songs he composes? If yes, then the problem is not with the music but with the person who composes it.
If Bala feels that ARR's style of composing would not fit his films, that is his opinion and nobody is going to bother about that.
As JG pointed out, the interviewer should be bashed up for asking such an idiotic question...
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From: crajkumar_be on 15th March 2009 12:02 PM [Full View]
Maddy,
Geoffrey's la oru Glenfiddich full ushaar pannunga.. eppa venaalum aajar! Seriously Have you posted the wrong video? idha vida apt examples Rahman repertoire-laye irukku but Pichai Paathiram is pichai paathiram. "Naan Paadum Mouna Raagam" is just that, sitting alone and it can never hope to have company. And i think Plum's point has been missed!
Originally Posted by MADDY
Plum, request you to verify with rahman fans before making such "conclusions".......if u cant find "pathos" in the below piece, then i'll buy you a drink in Geofferys,Chennai Originally Posted by Plum
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdEcNe0wrwU
just listen to this piece with pichhai pathiram visuals
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGvxFhDbCa0
it just matches perfectly.....agreed, it is high on opera and low on tabla, gatam, bell sounds but i would be lying if i say it didnt evoke the "pathos" feel that IR's song evoked........its bala's choice to go with IR's style......its nothing like ARR cant do this type of music :P
i had the "privilege" of living in Mumbai but i didnt know wat was the "sound of mumbai" and i still dont know.......i never knew that a african style music would be so haunting and so apt for mumbai slums(read: o saya in SDM).......i'm very sure that no one can "define" sounds/music of a land - because there are no parameters - music cannot be restricted to parameters as small as for a city or a state.....
maybe using veena, tabla, gatam, bells and basing music on Indian raagas can be called "Indian"......but what is south indian music then?? is tabla a north indian instrument or south indian instrument? even if a song is based out of "carnatic" raagas - does it mean it represents the music of tamilnadu?
IR music is "coveniently" "considered" as tamil music, music of this land etc........as ajay said - "pushpavanam" etc are more tamil than IR in that case.........
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From: sarna_blr on 15th March 2009 12:06 PM [Full View]
Originally Posted by MADDY
sudhir i was searching for this song
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From: complicateur on 15th March 2009 12:16 PM [Full View]
I keep trying to stay away but posts draw me back in. ingE Bala munthikittAru (nAn pAdum mouna rAgam is a lovely example - very simple yet quite unclassifiable in effect).
That Banyan theme music is exactly as it should be, very very hopeful (even before the percussion joins in) because I am sure they would not have wanted too many negative emotions associated with the organization. But thanks for posting the video - its has lovely operetta vocals like you mention.
Ajay/MADDY - All analysis of orchestrative structure is post-facto. What you feel is an initial reaction. An analysis of melody, rhythm orchestration is all an effort to understand why. Anyone (including myself) who mentions all of the above is positing a possible explanation for the feeling evoked and IMO possibly falling short. Ascribing the feel entirely to orchestrative structure or the melody or the rhythm pattern or the bass groove is quite impossible.
The case is true even of ARR. Consider that Swades BGM you posted a long while back - the essence of Bhargava is not in purely in the melody or the instruments used or how they are used. ellAm whole greater than sum of parts thAn. ellAmE aviyal thAn just different recipes. But preferences are personal and will stay that way.
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From: VENKIRAJA on 15th March 2009 12:20 PM [Full View]
athukku illeengaNNE, nAnum Facebook status ellAm Jai Ho-Nu pOttavan thAn. But you think "Edhukku poNdAtti.." stirs the same rural emotions that Ilayaraja manages to do with say, the same BR's MM songs? ARR isn't meek but is not as mighty as IR when it comes to this 'arousing' stuff. Seriously. Originally Posted by ajaybaskar
BTW, I'm joining Bala aNNan, namakku oru Smirn off.
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From: A.ANAND on 15th March 2009 12:20 PM [Full View]
eppadiyavathu adichikittu pongada,unngala thirutha mudiyathu innu,NOV sir nalla sunday athuvuma pothikittu thoongararu pola! Originally Posted by jaaze
Athu naan solla thevaiyilla. NOV kitta kettu paarunga Originally Posted by joe
Is it going to create third world war ? Originally Posted by jaaze
IR vs ARR thread-a maarikittu varuthu intha thread
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From: MADDY on 15th March 2009 12:28 PM [Full View]
Glenfiddich-a - i'm still a young, lets have it...... Originally Posted by crajkumar_be
Maddy,
Geoffrey's la oru Glenfiddich full ushaar pannunga.. eppa venaalum aajar! Seriously Have you posted the wrong video? idha vida apt examples Rahman repertoire-laye irukku but Pichai Paathiram is pichai paathiram. "Naan Paadum Mouna Raagam" is just that, sitting alone and it can never hope to have company. And i think Plum's point has been missed
i chose this piece becos the images were a bit similar - no offence to both sides of sufferers.........also, it comes with minimal instruments just to show that he has "already proved" that he can whip some emotions without his "weapons of mass destruction" at Panchathhan.......
i showed Dil se engagement scene BGM y'day in best director thread - i mean, its just our discretion to still post like "rahman can compose without synthesiser" "rahman has the ability to evoke negative feel if given right choice" etc etc.......thalaivar idhellam pannittaaru......he doesent need to prove anyone anymore......
ungalakku "pichhai pathhiram" ultimate piece of art0a irukkalam, director bala-vukku irukkalam - adhukaaga enakku irukkanum-ngra avasiyame illa.....for me, the feel provided by that song has already been provided by many ARR songs and much beyond that..........i wont say "ARR is the ultimate tamil musician, his music is the music of this land, river, ocean"........this sort of generalisation is what irks me.....
and what is the arguement bala ?? ARR-mani sugarcoat-aaa hayyo hayyo - then wat do we call "vidai kodu engal naade" song in kannathil muthhamittal?? comedy thirai?? there is a scene where keerthana sees child terrorists in her backyard in SL - appa varra BGM-a ellam words-la desribe panna mudiyaadhu.....innum kooda adhu enna feel-nnu unara mudiyala
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From: rajasaranam on 15th March 2009 12:28 PM [Full View]
Enakku oru 3 Large + 2 Large Jack Daniels :jai Ho:
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From: MADDY on 15th March 2009 12:33 PM [Full View]
thats ur personal opinion - gawt it? dont generalise it.....if u feel IR music is tamil music - fine, i dont have problems - dont ask me to agree with u and dont make it a general statement......... Originally Posted by VENKIRAJA
even if u think thats the correct statement and is reality - can u pls:
1. define parameters or sounds that define tami music feel
2. explain why rahman music is "not" village music
3. and even if IR music is the "only" tamil music, please explain why we shouldnt look at alternatives cinematically
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From: ajaybaskar on 15th March 2009 12:35 PM [Full View]
Venky, 16 வயதினிலே, முதல் மரியாதை போன்ற படங்கள் ஸ்டுடியோவுக்குள் அடங்கி இருந்த தமிழ் சினிமாவை கிராமத்துக்கு கொண்டு சென்றவை... அதனாலேயே ரசிகர்களுக்கு அதன் காட்சியமைப்புகளும் பாடல்களும் ஒரு அளவுகோல் மாதிரி ஆகிவிட்டது.. அந்த காலத்திலயே கிழக்குச்சீமையிலே வந்திருந்தால் உங்களின் "Village feel" வேறு மாதிரியான எதிர்பார்ப்புகளை கொண்டிருக்கும்....
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From: MADDY on 15th March 2009 12:43 PM [Full View]
IMO, this statement is == game set match Originally Posted by complicateur
venki, still awaiting ur answers
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From: ajaybaskar on 15th March 2009 12:45 PM [Full View]
If not venki, atleast the other gentlemen in the forum can give a helping hand.
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From: steveaustin on 15th March 2009 01:01 PM [Full View]
Originally Posted by MADDY
Maddy, Originally Posted by MADDY
I don't think music has language. It is only our feel to the music that we listen.
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From: rajasaranam on 15th March 2009 01:04 PM [Full View]
1. define parameters or sounds that define tami music feel
You are the first one to ask define parameters for a feeling. Feel is the one within people and when majority of Tamil people identify with Raaja's music that it has the tamil identity and feel, no body can question that.
2. explain why rahman music is "not" village music
The answer above is fine to do with this question. TO expand it Kizhakku cheemaiyiley or Karuthamma Songs are not being played in any temple thiruvizhas of Villages of TN proves that the people have not identified themselves with Rahmans kind of 'Folk' meesic. Its only the city bred people who have never visited the Villages of TN (Visit does not mean Visiting once/twice in their lifetime. It means 'living' there for quiet sometime to soak oneself with the smell of dung cakes and haystacks.) Who think that ARR's music invokes a Village feel.Unfortunately ARR is also a city bred and he wont be able to translate a feeling which he doesnt know, into music .
3. and even if IR music is the "only" tamil music, please explain why we shouldnt look at alternatives cinematically.
welcome the question. We should Definitely look forward to alternatives cinematically. But it should not be overwhelmingly done just for the sake of 'Experimenting'. If the 'rootedness' of the movies is lost, it is an handicap to the moviemaker.
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From: MADDY on 15th March 2009 01:05 PM [Full View]
yes, i feel pushpavanam kuppusamy is more tamil than IR, its in my opinion and ajay's opinion.........i dont have parameters for defining tamil music and i'm not callling anyone else's music "not tamil"........so, people who call IR music as the ultimate tamil music piece please define: Originally Posted by steveaustin
Originally Posted by MADDY
Originally Posted by MADDY
1. define parameters or sounds that define tami music feel
2. explain why rahman music is "not" village music
3. and even if IR music is the "only" tamil music, please explain why we shouldnt look at alternatives cinematically
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From: MADDY on 15th March 2009 01:11 PM [Full View]
can u pls define majority??? how many?? 4 crores out of 6.5 crores??? even if it is all 6.5 crores - why shuld majority be always right??? i dont agree to the majority..............majority of Indians - TN say ARR is the best musician in the country now - will u accede to this statement?? Originally Posted by rajasaranam
regarding ur other 2 answers, ajay is better suited to answer since he is as much a "tamil villager" as any raaja-fan and has seen reality in villages......
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From: VENKIRAJA on 15th March 2009 01:11 PM [Full View]
Maybe, quite right. I'm technically not from a village. But my cousins live there and whenever I stay with them for considerably long periods, I do enjoy the feel and environment and all that. I mean, andha uNarvu EnO Kizhakku Cheemaiyile-va vida MM-la varudhu-nu sonnEn. Its purely a subjective case. Originally Posted by ajaybaskar
Maddy aNNA, IMO-nu add paNNa maRandhutten. I don't want to change opinions anyway, I just stated mine. Still, I am brave enough to admit that I'm biased. I do like Rahman's works and all (Girlfriend 'kaNNALanE' pAdinA sooper-nu thAn solluvEn) but when it comes to IR vs. ARR (if not in some areas, like you told Boys for Raja, etc.) I strictly stand by Raja's side.
1. Parameters? Enakku intha dictionary vaarthai ellam use paNNa theriyAthu. According to me- it should be unpolished, raw and quite subtle of its genius itself. For instance, "Sotta sotta nanaiyudhu.." is definitely not rural. It nevertheless can be sung by Rythm's "Dheem thana naa.." Arjun as well, can't it? Now there lies the difference. Sounds- This is difficult. othukuREn- "Chinna chinna Asai" was polished and rich, but somehow it is rural. Answering this question, maybe other Hubbers would.
2. Rahman's is not always village music because his songs rely heavily on the lyrics and the visuals. (IR-ku idhu illayA-nu kEkkAdheenga) Don't you feel 'en purusan thAN' and 'pORALE ponnuthAyi' are two different identites?
3. I didn't say that, and yeah I do agree that 'athaikku piRanthavaLE' is Tamil music.
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From: ajaybaskar on 15th March 2009 01:14 PM [Full View]
RS,
1. What is the "Majority" that you refer? Is it like Jayalalitha's "Minority Thi Mu Ka Arasu" sort of allegation that you throw on ARR or something else?
2. We, ARR fans would prefer our songs to be played on Kodak theatres and not in Kovil Thiruvizhas.
(Anyways, I had seen Abhinaya Naattiya Kuzhu's programme in my village thiruvizha, not IR or ARR songs. )
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From: sarna_blr on 15th March 2009 01:14 PM [Full View]
ur village might be appropriate Originally Posted by rajasaranam
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From: ajaybaskar on 15th March 2009 01:21 PM [Full View]
MADDY, Still I believe you have not got the answers for this!! Originally Posted by MADDY
thats ur personal opinion - gawt it? dont generalise it.....if u feel IR music is tamil music - fine, i dont have problems - dont ask me to agree with u and dont make it a general statement......... Originally Posted by VENKIRAJA
even if u think thats the correct statement and is reality - can u pls:
1. define parameters or sounds that define tami music feel
2. explain why rahman music is "not" village music
3. and even if IR music is the "only" tamil music, please explain why we shouldnt look at alternatives cinematically
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From: steveaustin on 15th March 2009 01:23 PM [Full View]
When you have no parameters then how do you feel Pushpavanam Kuppusamy is more Tamil than IR??? Originally Posted by MADDY
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From: rajasaranam on 15th March 2009 01:24 PM [Full View]
Its not about voting and choosing someone as to who is right. It is about the feeling of the people and if they say 'Raaja's music best expresses their culture and milieu and if you are not going to agree. None can help. So Be It. Originally Posted by MADDY
Majority of 'Indian' / 'Tamil' have not yet said that ARR is the best musician in the country - if they do I will accede to that statement
ajay oru 'Pakka Gramathaanna' irunthu Raaja music vida Rahman music thaan athigama (or equall'a) Tamizh gramangala prathinithithuvapaduthuthunnu sonnarnna Enakku Nerayave santhegam varuthu avar grammamnnu etha pruinji vachikittun irukkarnnu. Appadi Uruthiya ninna, enakku solrathukku onnum illa 'Vellam varum bodhu sila kasadugalum sernthu vanthurathu illaya'
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From: crajkumar_be on 15th March 2009 01:26 PM [Full View]
Pushpavanam, WCM, bass guitar in folk - mmm
Ajay,
You had raised this question in another thread. I'd stopped responding in that thread because the intention of the digression/thread-starter in that instance was not curiosity or an urge to discuss but an attempt to lighta mattam thattufy Raaja's style and repertoire (without attempting to cover Raaja's ground in the first place).
Ippo pesalaam
Is the point about usage of instruments? - No! If thats the argument, music as we know it today, as we have been knowing it over the years is finished. Violin, Mandolin, Guitar, Keyboard, Synth, Saxophone, Continuuum etc - edhuvume namma oorla irukkaadhu, velaikkavadhu. That's not the point. Let's take "Veyilodu Vilayaadi" - irritates me to no end. Such acts of sodomy do! Its not just about instruments.
Pushpavanam - He does 'real' folk. OK (I'm not an expert in folk music origins and patterns in TN but i can definitely wax eloquent about where i get the pastoral feel in music and i'm sure i'll have company). Is that all? Is Pushapavanam an IR or ARR?
Maddy, WCM or bass guitar or whatever, what does he do to the song ultimately? At the end of the day, what kind of song is that? WCM, bass guitar are ornaments adorning a basic, fundamental 'body'. That should be indisputable. And in any case, yaro sonna madhiri, his is the most authentic among the MD's, relatively speaking. Oorla irukkaravanukku bass guitar ellam theriyadhu. The listener will get what he wants from the song. Raaja can give me what Pushpavanam gives but the vice versa is certainly not true, even going by Ajay's argument. Raaja-ku folk 'nalla' varaadhu, its just laughable. What are we talking about here?
Raaja is the most original creator TFI has seen. I don't mean original creator not in the "not inspired by" or "plagiarism" context at all. Quite the contrary. In fact, that kind of "not inspired by" argument is stupid, actually. Original and creator here refers to his unique stamp. Drum rhythm patterns, tune, arrangements - distinctly Raaja. This also includes inspirations etc.. End output-> Uniquely Raaja. This is what he does to folk, or anything for that matter. Whatever he does he does not sugar coat or polish the roughness.
"Adiye Manam Nillunna" - so he used acoustic drums and jeys in this song? Does it make it any less of a 'kuthu'? Where the song needs 'pure' folk, he will give that. Where its a more generic requirement, he will give a more adorned version but at the end of the day, it will be the "song of the land". You won't hear a Rajasthani/U.P or whatever folk bit in a South TN small town setting.
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From: ajaybaskar on 15th March 2009 01:27 PM [Full View]
RS, Do you think city bred cant compose village based songs/sounds or vice versa? I think it is one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever heard.
Did IR spend months in Mumbai to compose Cheeni Kum or did ARR go to China to compose WOHE?
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From: rajasaranam on 15th March 2009 01:29 PM [Full View]
The underlined answer shows how much respect you have got for your village Originally Posted by ajaybaskar
Which Village are you from?
Sarna_blr,
Sari vidunga ithula argue panni enna aaga poguthu. Ellorum oru vagaiyila kenathu thavalaiyaa thaana irukkom. En kenaru enakku perisu, unga kenaru ungalukku
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From: crajkumar_be on 15th March 2009 01:32 PM [Full View]
Compli,
I categorically disagree with the ellame "Ore vidhamana aviyal" argument. Vanmayaana kandanam, coming from a Rasaappu rasigar
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From: rajasaranam on 15th March 2009 01:38 PM [Full View]
Unmaiyaana aarvam iruntha compose pannalaam. ARR compose pannina Tamil folk songs ellam romba authentic'a irunthathu. Avar compose panna north folk songs thaan konjam kooda authenticity illama irunthathu Originally Posted by ajaybaskar
Enakku time illa Argue panna, Maddy vera sarakka nyabagam pannitaru poi oru 1/4 vuttutu sunday lunch vettanum. BYE
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From: crajkumar_be on 15th March 2009 01:40 PM [Full View]
Ajay,
It is easier for a rural guy to learn and 'imbibe'and PRODUCE 'urban' and 'elitist' forms of music than for a urban guy to 'imbibe' and PRODUCE country music.
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From: MADDY on 15th March 2009 01:41 PM [Full View]
CR, please define the "song of the land" - how does IR evoke that feel - is it the instruments or raaga or wat is it??? i too get the feel of village listening to IR's music........but i dont think IR's is the only way to compose tamil music........ARR's "maattu vandi" loop in "kathhazhangaattu vazhi" song evokes the maattu vandi feel immediately - FYI, i have travelled couple of times in maattu vandi too........iR music kandippa tamil music dhaan - i dont think me or ajay are denying it - but we feel its his interpretation of tamil visuals........and we dont agree it is the 100% reality..... Originally Posted by crajkumar_be
CR, btw, did u feel the "african" style o saya was a "misfit" in a mumbai based film slumdog millionare???
yaar idhellam define pannanum CR??? appadiye neenga define pannalum, naa edhukku othhukittu aaganum??
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From: sarna_blr on 15th March 2009 01:41 PM [Full View]
ok Originally Posted by rajasaranam
Sarna_blr,
Sari vidunga ithula argue panni enna aaga poguthu. Ellorum oru vagaiyila kenathu thavalaiyaa thaana irukkom. En kenaru enakku perisu, unga kenaru ungalukku
listening to this song this song
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From: ajaybaskar on 15th March 2009 01:41 PM [Full View]
Bala,
It was IR Vs ARR first. Now its turning out to be IR Vs PK. We dont want that to happen. I pretty well know that IR can give what PK gives but not the other way. I didnt mean that too. All I meant was that IR is not the god of music and his songs are not the bench mark. Innovations are bound to happen and nothing will stop that process. If the "Majority" feels that IR's music alone brings the "Village feel", then I am proud, ecstatic, and overwhelmed to be a part of the "minority".
I think i have delivered it right!!!
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From: MADDY on 15th March 2009 01:42 PM [Full View]
so shall i say IR is "lesser" to Rahman for a subject like DevD??? Originally Posted by crajkumar_be
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From: ajaybaskar on 15th March 2009 01:46 PM [Full View]
Originally Posted by rajasaranam
Unmaiyaana aarvam iruntha compose pannalaam. ARR compose pannina Tamil folk songs ellam romba authentic'a irunthathu. Avar compose panna north folk songs thaan konjam kooda authenticity illama irunthathu Originally Posted by ajaybaskar
Enakku time illa Argue panna, Maddy vera sarakka nyabagam pannitaru poi oru 1/4 vuttutu sunday lunch vettanum. BYE
The best reply that I can give ......
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From: MADDY on 15th March 2009 01:48 PM [Full View]
excellent !! i think everyone here including bala wants us to believe watever IR does is the correct procedure - sorry guys Originally Posted by ajaybaskar
Bala,
It was IR Vs ARR first. Now its turning out to be IR Vs PK. We dont want that to happen. I pretty well know that IR can give what PK gives but not the other way. I didnt mean that too. All I meant was that IR is not the god of music and his songs are not the bench mark. Innovations are bound to happen and nothing will stop that process. If the "Majority" feels that IR's music alone brings the "Village feel", then I am proud, ecstatic, and overwhelmed to be a part of the "minority".
I think i have delivered it right!!!
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From: crajkumar_be on 15th March 2009 01:51 PM [Full View]
Maddy,
"Veyyilodu Vilayaadi"
"Yaaro Yaarodi"
"ambasamudram"
"Poraale Ponnuthaayi"
I rest my case
Originally Posted by MADDY
CR, please define the "song of the land" - how does IR evoke that feel - is it the instruments or raaga or wat is it??? i too get the feel of village listening to IR's music........but i dont think IR's is the only way to compose tamil music........ARR's "maattu vandi" loop in "kathhazhangaattu vazhi" song evokes the maattu vandi feel immediately - FYI, i have travelled couple of times in maattu vandi too........iR music kandippa tamil music dhaan - i dont think me or ajay are denying it - but we feel its his interpretation of tamil visuals........and we dont agree it is the 100% reality..... Originally Posted by crajkumar_be
Nope!!! I would reiterate what i told you in the interval regarding this. O Saya's rhythm, to me, captured the visuals and the 'on the run' mood exceedingly well. I've already made the point here also - about instruments, genre etc. Originally Posted by MADDY
CR, btw, did u feel the "african" style o saya was a "misfit" in a mumbai based film slumdog millionare??? yaar idhellam define pannanum CR??? appadiye neenga define pannalum, naa edhukku othhukittu aaganum??
Also, SDM is NOT mudhal mariyadhai, as in one requires conformance to the much debated 'music of the land' and the other does not. Who defines all this? Of course the director. Naan enamo periya mannu madhiri rules podren nu pakkareengala? En personal theory nu vechukkalaam
And regarding "Othukiranum", "Bala wants us to believe that IR's procedure is the correct procedure" - well, not at all - "unga thottam, neenga varalaam". I'm just voicing my opinions, othukitta sandhosham, othukkalennaalum parava illa. idhellam oru matter-a? This is the case with all of us here, i guess.
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From: MADDY on 15th March 2009 01:58 PM [Full View]
Veyyilodu vilayadi is by GVP not by ARR..........if u say yaaro yaarodi and ambasamudram are not village marriage song - can u pls define how it should be done for me??? Originally Posted by crajkumar_be
Maddy,
"Veyyilodu Vilayaadi"
"Yaaro Yaarodi"
"ambasamudram"
"Poraale Ponnuthaayi"
I rest my case
-edited-
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From: complicateur on 15th March 2009 01:59 PM [Full View]
Bala, Originally Posted by crajkumar_be
Compli,
I categorically disagree with the ellame "Ore vidhamana aviyal" argument. Vanmayaana kandanam, coming from a Rasaappu rasigar
The statement is not to be read as 'orE vidhamAna aviyal' but 'oru vidhamAna aviyal'. One cannot state that rAjA's rusticity is not without it's 'external' influences.
I agree that I am extremely defensive when it comes to terms such as 'thamizh'-ness. But I believe the 'rootedness' you talk about, as you say in another post, is to rAjA rather than to the 'soil' or 'culture'. What rAjA does is so unique in that the rustic rAjA, rambunctious rAjA and the rock-n-roll rAjA, while utilising the same 'instruments', are perceptibly different while being still the same - 'rAjA'. That level of artistry should not be reduced to possibly partisan discussions of 'culture'.
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From: crajkumar_be on 15th March 2009 02:01 PM [Full View]
Purila, Originally Posted by MADDY
so shall i say IR is "lesser" to Rahman for a subject like DevD??? Originally Posted by crajkumar_be
as in en post-ku unga kostin eppadi related-nu.
If i treat it as a standalone kostin, well i think yes!! (surprised? ) At this point in time, yes!
Why, lets take Boys - Definitely! idhula enna doubt?
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From: crajkumar_be on 15th March 2009 02:06 PM [Full View]
Of course it is by GVP! I didnt say it was by Rahman. Originally Posted by MADDY
Veyyilodu vilayadi is by GVP not by ARR..........if u say yaaro yaarodi and ambasamudram are not village marriage song - can u pls define how it should be done for me??? Originally Posted by crajkumar_be
Maddy,
"Veyyilodu Vilayaadi"
"Yaaro Yaarodi"
"ambasamudram"
"Poraale Ponnuthaayi"
I rest my case
-edited-
Also, define panna mudiyama thaane paatta mattum sonnen.. Its empirical
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From: MADDY on 15th March 2009 02:14 PM [Full View]
yes it was a misdirected, mistimed question............. Originally Posted by crajkumar_be
Purila,
as in en post-ku unga kostin eppadi related-nu.
If i treat it as a standalone kostin, well i think yes!! (surprised? ) At this point in time, yes!
Why, lets take Boys - Definitely! idhula enna doubt? but really nice to know ur opinion :P Boys - yes, i think its a question of whether it deserves a raaja looking back, it didnt require a ARR too :P
do u think ARR is a misfit in bala's movies? i certainly dont think so......all this while we thot he is a misfit to kamal as well - but we are being proved wrong slowly
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From: crajkumar_be on 15th March 2009 02:36 PM [Full View]
Excellent example Originally Posted by VENKIRAJA
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From: crajkumar_be on 15th March 2009 02:38 PM [Full View]
I think IR will be the best fit but i would love to see what Rahman would come up with in a Bala film. Originally Posted by MADDY
yes it was a misdirected, mistimed question............. Originally Posted by crajkumar_be
Purila,
as in en post-ku unga kostin eppadi related-nu.
If i treat it as a standalone kostin, well i think yes!! (surprised? ) At this point in time, yes!
Why, lets take Boys - Definitely! idhula enna doubt? but really nice to know ur opinion :P Boys - yes, i think its a question of whether it deserves a raaja looking back, it didnt require a ARR too :P
do u think ARR is a misfit in bala's movies? i certainly dont think so......all this while we thot he is a misfit to kamal as well - but we are being proved wrong slowly
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From: VENKIRAJA on 15th March 2009 02:45 PM [Full View]
Originally Posted by crajkumar_be
Excellent example Originally Posted by VENKIRAJA
The whole album It is good, yeah but the 'maNmaNam' factor is missing.
Songs like 'Manja kezhange', (and one more where he runs over the railway track), try to be rural.
Yaaro yaarodi is okay, Ammi midhichaachu is ridiculous.
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From: MADDY on 15th March 2009 02:51 PM [Full View]
whole album Originally Posted by VENKIRAJA
Originally Posted by crajkumar_be
Excellent example Originally Posted by VENKIRAJA
The whole album
Songs like 'Manja kezhange', (and one more where he runs over the railway track), try to be rural.
Yaaro yaarodi is okay, Ammi midhichaachu is ridiculous. thiruppachi arivaal was the most played song in rural areas those days.....it even comes as a joke in one of vijay's movies.........
pls tell me wat was in manja kezhange call it a bad song??? i mean which note or instrument or raaga made it "un-rural" or urban??? i know it can be used in slumdog millionare opening bit but other than that do u have any concrete reason as to why this is "un-rural"???
can u explain wat does the bass notes do in "pothi vechha malliga mottu" in man vaasanai ?? standalone i found it a great "raja" song than a "village" song...........same goes for "raasathi unna kaanadha nenju" - wat a WCM interludes - i seriouly feel like travelling through some english villages whenever i listen to it.....
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From: crajkumar_be on 15th March 2009 02:53 PM [Full View]
Rahman panradhu dhaan innovation nu neenga sollala nu nenaikkaren, but appadi mean panni sollirundha, as usual, vehemently disagree. IOW, innovate panradhukku local flavor-aye kola pannanum nu avasiyam illa! Originally Posted by ajaybaskar
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From: crajkumar_be on 15th March 2009 02:57 PM [Full View]
Originally Posted by MADDY
400 periyars, no, 1000 periyars, no chance
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From: MADDY on 15th March 2009 02:57 PM [Full View]
neenga mattum raaja panradhu dhaan "isai", "gramiya isai" nnu sollalaam aana naanga appadi nenaikkave koodaadhu Originally Posted by crajkumar_be
Rahman panradhu dhaan innovation nu neenga sollala nu nenaikkaren, but appadi mean panni sollirundha, as usual, vehemently disagree. IOW, innovate panradhukku local flavor-aye kola pannanum nu avasiyam illa! Originally Posted by ajaybaskar
rightuu
seri, ARRahman local flavor-a eppadi kola pannaru - pls explain....i think u r establishing "IR style" as local flvaor....does that mean, pre-IR, tamil folk music illaya??? MSV - tamil isai-ye kudukkalaya???
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From: MADDY on 15th March 2009 02:59 PM [Full View]
summa idhaye solli 4 peru kitta kai thattal vaangadhinga :P ofcourse, when u argue with me - u'll get support from entire hub Originally Posted by crajkumar_be
Originally Posted by MADDY
400 periyars, no, 1000 periyars, no chance
neenga solra IR music-a engala "tamil music" standard-a ethukka mudiyaadhu..........period
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From: complicateur on 15th March 2009 03:09 PM [Full View]
It is a simple bass line for rAjA's standards but very effectively augments the main guitar melody, which is very rustic, giving it a depth. Almost like a male counterpoint to the female which is the entire point of the song. Originally Posted by MADDY
You could make the case that this is a typical love song from rAjA's stable but listen to mEgam karukkaiyilE from the same album which has almost all the orchestral points you make and deny that it is rustic. Any further doubts clarified below: Originally Posted by MADDY
The difference between rAjA and mortals is the difference between Neo and others in 'The Matrix'. Originally Posted by RR
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From: ajaybaskar on 15th March 2009 03:22 PM [Full View]
Originally Posted by crajkumar_be
Originally Posted by MADDY
400 periyars, no, 1000 periyars, no chance
Periyar eppo IR musicthaan bestnu sonnaru????
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From: ajaybaskar on 15th March 2009 03:27 PM [Full View]
Pesama indha topica "Rural recognition to IR Music" apdinnu maaththidalam.
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From: VENKIRAJA on 15th March 2009 03:39 PM [Full View]
See, I didn't say it wasn't good. It basically isn't 'grAmiya isai'. Originally Posted by MADDY
whole album Originally Posted by VENKIRAJA
Originally Posted by crajkumar_be
Excellent example Originally Posted by VENKIRAJA
The whole album
Songs like 'Manja kezhange', (and one more where he runs over the railway track), try to be rural.
Yaaro yaarodi is okay, Ammi midhichaachu is ridiculous. thiruppachi arivaal was the most played song in rural areas those days.....it even comes as a joke in one of vijay's movies.........
pls tell me wat was in manja kezhange call it a bad song??? i mean which note or instrument or raaga made it "un-rural" or urban??? i know it can be used in slumdog millionare opening bit but other than that do u have any concrete reason as to why this is "un-rural"???
can u explain wat does the bass notes do in "pothi vechha malliga mottu" in man vaasanai ?? standalone i found it a great "raja" song than a "village" song...........same goes for "raasathi unna kaanadha nenju" - wat a WCM interludes - i seriouly feel like travelling through some english villages whenever i listen to it.....
I keep telling this from the beginning, enakku meesic-a pathi ellAm theriyAthu. I'm talking from the POV of a layman, who unfortunately gets the luxury of owning some music devices which make him listen to music and appreciate it at the lowest level, and to me maybe ARR doesn't strike the nail's head when it comes to the feelings evoked..
Bass Notes?
"Isai-nnnA... ummm umm Isai!"
Matter over.
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From: crajkumar_be on 15th March 2009 03:43 PM [Full View]
unga aalu dhaan rural recognition-starved, this thread is reserved for you, we will be content with "global recognition" thread for now Originally Posted by ajaybaskar
illadhadha thedi thaane ponum!
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From: A_Ajith on 15th March 2009 03:44 PM [Full View]
Enaya neenga Harris Jeyaraj ultimate music podumpodhu, summa ARR IR nu comedy panitu irukeenga.
Welcome to Next Gen music ---- HARRIS JEYARAJ
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From: Plum on 15th March 2009 03:45 PM [Full View]
oh ivlo soodu pidichiducha?
Maddy, freeya viduma. You cannot 'prove' to us that Rahman's tamil folk is authentic as much as I cannot 'prove' to you that Raja is the benchmark as far as
'evocative' or 'rooted' BGM goes.
I find the discussion about 'tamilness' a bit distracting from my belief . Atleast when it comes to the various South Indian sub-cultures, Raja has proved extremely adept at distinguishing at a micro-level . Listen to the title music of Aradhana - it is different from Kadalora Kavidhaigal of which it is a remake - the chorus that comes int he middle, is authentically coastal Andhra . Idhai naan eppadi prove pannuven? I just felt it - edho konjam South India-la travel panninadhala therinjudhu. Otherwise, I wouldnt have even known that Raja invoked that specific flavour for that particular movie. How do I ever prove it to you?
When Raja does a Malayalam movie, he invokes local idioms without giving up the Rajaness. Complicateur can write volumes on this, cant you Compli?
When Rahman did his solitary Malayalam film(albeit at a very early stage of his career), it was Asokan, which can easily be fit into an equivalent tamil movie. Now, these are my experiences of Rahman and I may be biased but Rahman, I'd say, is yet to exhibit that savvy to adapt to sub-cultures. He is very good at a macro level - Sarfaroshi ki tamanna, you can very well ask me has Raja ever captured punjabi ethos at that level. This doesnt mean Rahman isnt capable - Raja has done nothing like Fanaa - so if you say Raja hasnt so far shown his ability to do anything like Fanaa, I'd agree with that though I'd disagree if you categorically use that as a proof for Rahman's greatness over Raja. Really, if you see this in that light, there is no argument to argue.
I have absolutely no intentions of proving anything to anyone simply becaus I can't.
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From: MrJudge on 15th March 2009 03:45 PM [Full View]
Exactly, Bala. This fact backfires him for long time since 1992. Though he copied Boney M's sunny, he never tried to use it as it is. If he had wanted, he could've very well ripped apart those numbers and used the same way as those artists used the bass, rhythm pattern, sounds etc... He never does that, even now he tries to do something unique out of the synthesizers. He tries to create his own, obviously he is failing now. Originally Posted by crajkumar_be
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From: Plum on 15th March 2009 03:49 PM [Full View]
I'd really be distressed if someone argues that the tamilness of Raja's music is his unique calling card. That is like saying Arjuna was a rather useful warrior.
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From: crajkumar_be on 15th March 2009 03:50 PM [Full View]
You've already made it abundantly clear and i've also said i'm not going to lose sleep over you or Ajaybaskar not agreeing with me and it would be the same with you guys - apparam yen idhaye sollitrukkeenga? Originally Posted by MADDY
Neenga post panreenga, naanum panren, with opposite viewpoints... Like Naai Segar says "un kitta edhavadhu prachanai pannena? nee paattuku adi, naan inga ennitrukken"... (just realized that you can ask me the same.. recursion.. damn)
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From: crajkumar_be on 15th March 2009 03:52 PM [Full View]
I don't think anyone meant that (idha assume panni dhaan Ajay brought in Pushpavanam). Raaja is The Unique. Rootedness is one attribute. Originally Posted by Plum
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From: ajaybaskar on 15th March 2009 03:53 PM [Full View]
Originally Posted by crajkumar_be
unga aalu dhaan rural recognition-starved, this thread is reserved for you, we will be content with "global recognition" thread for now Originally Posted by ajaybaskar
illadhadha thedi thaane ponum!
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From: complicateur on 15th March 2009 03:57 PM [Full View]
An important aspect to note is that some of rAjA's tunes re-used dont have the same impact:
1. Aey Zindagi - en vAzhvilE
2. maLLI maLLi ithi rANi rOju - Malli Malli ithu jAthi malli
3. vAlittezhuthiya nIlakkadakkaNNil - thEr koNdu vanthavan
4. Of all its versions thumbi vA is by far the best.
5. The entire kAlA pAni album sounds far far better in MalayALam.
6. ManRam vantha thenRalukku had to be reorchestrated to be light as a feather for Cheeni Kum.
7. Vidiya Vidiya SaraNam santhOsham to Josh Josh mein aajaaO subtle differences to augment the evocation of dread.
Then there are of course exceptions like JOtheyalli which seemed to fit like a glove where they were reused.
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From: crajkumar_be on 15th March 2009 04:01 PM [Full View]
Extremely important aspect. idhu dhaan essence.
Oru point: Even if you take Jotheyalli, only the Tamil version 'worked'. North Indies didn't digest "Jaane Do Na" rather well - a version which is even better than the original!!!
Originally Posted by complicateur
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From: Plum on 15th March 2009 04:05 PM [Full View]
maddy, ivlo churning-la, that banyan link was the good thing. Nice, but it is not 'proof' of Rahman can handle negative emotions - it does what it is supposed to do which is to evoke a can-do, the lot of these people can be bettered feel. Sugar coating...irukku..but thats what is needed there so it is not Rahman's fault.
The primary cog for my reservations about Rahman handling negative emotions is his personality itself where he seems to distance himself from these emotions, which is what adds to his aura as a human being. However, as an artist, you need to embrace your emotions to paint it for the rest of the world - this is a fundamental belief I hold so feel free to differ here - this added to the fact that Rahman really hasnt had opportunity to do something like Sethu or Pithamagan(Yeah, there was Earth and Water, but Water is quite subtle and again carries hope and optimism in the theme. Earth comes closest but fails as a background score in my opinion ), does give rise to the question whether he would really entertain someone like Bala at Panchathan.
Ajay Bhaskar, I think you'd be very happy if I said Rahman can do everything Raja has done, musically and film-BGM wise, and Rahman can do it better. If that makes you happy, let me agree with you and close the discussion as far as you are concerned.
Maddy, I find your efforts a genuine desire to take Rahman to even naysayers - appreciate that and am willing to engage with you further on this - if only that would open my eyes to facets of Rahman that I am simply ignorant about.
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From: Plum on 15th March 2009 04:28 PM [Full View]
compli, now that is a fine point.
Raja always tries to match the underlying ethos, except in the case of generic Allari Mogudu to Paayum Puli translations (dont take that literally, just mean generic telugu movie (that doesnt really represent telugu ethos or any specific rootedness of telugu ) to generic tamil transformations)
In te case of Kaala paani, that was a dubbing. So, the fact that it sounds good only in Malayalam says a lot about its rootedness.
In the case of Cheeni Kum, a lot was achieved with the change in orchestration, and that precisely is the point. I never thought Kuzhaloodhum Kannanukku could be succesfully translated into a bollywood movie but it was. The second interlude at Covent Garden invoking the free-spirited carribean tramps typical of Covent Garden, is something only Rahman could have done apart from Raja himself. Cheeni Kum benefitted a lot from Raja in ways the audience for the film never realised. I'd say you missed the point on Cheeni Kum.
A lot of succesful music in Tamil say Kamal movies like Raaja Paarvai, Moondram pirai suffered in dubbing - they(the movie as well as the music) just couldnt place themselves in the telugu context. This speaks a lot for the originality and creative integrity of guys like Kamal, Balu M and Raja.
Then again, it is not that Raja hasnt done the sort of "one tune pleases all" generic music, of which Rahman is the most succesful practitioner, and Sadma is a fine example of both approaches. While Kanne kalaimaane retains the tune and orchestration without being out of place, Poongatru succesfully morphs into Ae Zindagi. There is failure, too as Munne oru Kaalathula, the immensely succesful tamil tale-song is morphed into a colossal failure as Ek Dafa Ek jungle tha. I do not know a single north indian(or west or east) household of that time or later which used this tale-song in real life while I know many in Tamilnadu which gleefully used Munne oru kaalathula as valid form of bed-time entertainment for children. Mine, for one.
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From: joe on 15th March 2009 04:29 PM [Full View]
Originally Posted by MADDY
Onnum Panna mudiyaathu
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From: Plum on 15th March 2009 04:34 PM [Full View]
CR, I'd call Rahman original creator in the same level as I'd call Raja the same. - in the sense that you have defined it. This is very different from my reservations on rootedness.
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From: joe on 15th March 2009 04:34 PM [Full View]
கிராமத்து இசை என்பது வேறு ,கிராமத்து சூழலை கண்முன் நிறுத்தும் இசை எனப்து வேறு .இரண்டும் ஒன்றாக இருக்க வேண்டுமென்று அவசியம் இல்லை .. கிராமத்தை சேராத இசைக்கருவிகள் பயன்படுத்தப்படுகிறதா என்பதல்ல அளவுகோல் ..அந்த இசை உங்களை கிராமத்து பின்புலத்தை உணரச்செய்கிறதா என்பது தான் முக்கியம் .
அந்த வகையில் இளையராசாவின் இசை ஒரு படி மேல் என்பதை ஒரு கிராமத்தான் என்ற முறையில் சொல்லிக்கொள்கிறேன்.
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From: Plum on 15th March 2009 04:38 PM [Full View]
Compli, thumbi vaa transformed as Aakasam Enatidho in Telugu, More to the point, it moved from the context in Malayalam in Olangal as a young, urban, upwardly mobile family with 2 young children frolicking to a song capturing the love of a tribal and a forest officer in the middle plains of Andhra Pradesh. (Yes, thumbi vaa's telugu rework happened in the telugu remake of Yatra, not olangal). I found it slightly off the mark so it does substantiate your point about context equalisation
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From: Plum on 15th March 2009 04:40 PM [Full View]
"ARR's "maattu vandi" loop in "kathhazhangaattu vazhi" song evokes the maattu vandi feel immediately - FYI"
Agree. The tune for the pallavi of this song is very close to the second interlude of IR classic Unakkena thaane innerama.
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From: complicateur on 15th March 2009 04:42 PM [Full View]
I mention only manRam vantha thenRalukku/Cheeni Kum but my view on Cheeni Kum extends to the other songs as well. I believe that while the melodic plot of the songs [Kuzhaloothum/Baatein HawA and Jotheyali/JaanE dO nA] are similar enough to suggest interchangeability they are entirely different animals. I was just trying to make the point that they had to be reorchestrated significantly to fit the movie. Originally Posted by Plum
Bala,
avasaraththula I overlooked jAnE dO nA while talking about JOtheyalli.
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From: MADDY on 15th March 2009 04:45 PM [Full View]
r u saying the interludes are not Western classical music? i know it evoked tamil village feel, can u point out which "thing" musically made you think so apart from lyrics? Originally Posted by joe
Originally Posted by MADDY
Onnum Panna mudiyaathu
plum - i answered back to u because i felt u had "misinfomed" notions abt thalaivar's style.........but as we moved into arguement i found u have too much of "assumptions" , which would take a very great deal of time to be cleared.........anyways, my offer for u at geoffery's is still open.....we can clear it over there......
//offer valid only for Plum :P //
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From: complicateur on 15th March 2009 05:16 PM [Full View]
Actually not MADDY. Listening to it while typing this - while the orchestrative technique is western the elemental melodies are quite indian. Let us consider the instruments used Originally Posted by MADDY
1. The nAyanam and the flute - no arguments here that these are quite popular in the indian musical paradigm. In specific for the flute and the nAyanam, if one removes the typical rAgA constraints imposed by classical music it becomes very folkish. [Actually this might be true of Western Classical as well - If you remove the root-tone-tone-semitone-tone-tone-tone-semitone, root-tone-semitone-tone-tone-semitone constraints it might be resemble the indian musical system or voice reminiscent folk forms such as Klezmer - but I cannot be certain as I am not versed enough]
2. The violin - A traditionally western instrument but one that was modified ages ago by BAluswami DIkshithar to be relevant in the Indian classical scene. The tuning in the Indian and western constructs vary and one can alter depending on what one requires. In the case of rAsAththi unnai I believe the Indian tuning might have been used.
3. The bass guitar - Very western but noticeable and delineated only by the discerning listener to whom a high quality recording is available. The fact that this discovery is available but not widely known is a great attraction of rAjA's music. The joy of delving and finding is indescribable.
So we've covered most aspects. It is a bit of a hurried deconstruction so forgive any loose ends.
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From: crajkumar_be on 15th March 2009 05:32 PM [Full View]
Compli,
The interludes being WCM or not is not the point, in this song or in any. Either the tune, singers, singing itself, ludes, instruments - one or more would render it proper to the context. Net result = song for the chichuvason,soozhal.
Maddy is looking at a part which we ourselves concede as WCM, non-native instruments etc.. whats the point?
WCM or not, the main melody is not some Rajasthani folk or whatever....
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From: crajkumar_be on 15th March 2009 05:33 PM [Full View]
Not in my view. Originally Posted by Plum
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From: complicateur on 15th March 2009 05:38 PM [Full View]
Oh agreed! Just wanted to ensure that a distinction is made between the tehnique and the net result. Originally Posted by crajkumar_be
I wanted to include this in my earlier reply to Plum. I'm with Bala on this. Originally Posted by crajkumar_be
Not in my view. Originally Posted by Plum
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From: A.ANAND on 15th March 2009 06:11 PM [Full View]
[tscii]விருதுகளைத் தாண்டிய மகா கலைஞர் இளையராஜா - பாலமுரளி கிருஷ்ணாஞாயிற்றுக்கிழமை, மார்ச் 15, 2009, 16:29 [IST] இலவச நியூஸ் லெட்டர் பெற
ஏஆர் ரஹ்மான் ஆஸ்கர் வாங்கினார்... மகா சந்தோஷம். அதற்காக மற்ற கலைஞர்களை குறைவாக மதிப்பிடுவது அறியாமை. இளையராஜா என்ற மகா கலைஞன் பிறக்காமல் போயிருந்தால் தமிழ் சினிமா இசையே தெரியாமல் போயிருக்கும். அவரும் எம்எஸ்வியும் இன்னும் எத்தனையோ மேதைகளும் விருதுகளையே வென்றவர்கள். அவர்களை யாரோடும் ஒப்பிட வேண்டாம், என்று கூறியுள்ளார் கர்நாடக இசை மேதை டாக்டர் எம் பாலமுரளிகிருஷ்ணா.
கர்நாடக இசை கலைஞரும், திரைப்பட பாடகருமான பாலமுரளி கிருஷ்ணா 40 வருடங்களுக்கு பிறகு ‘கதை’ என்ற படத்தில் பாடகராகவே நடித்து வருகிறார்.
இதுகுறித்து நிருபர்களிடம் அவர் கூறியதாவது: 40 வருடத்துக்கு முன்பு ‘பக்தபிரகலாதன்’ என்ற படத்தில் நாரதர் வேடத்தில் நடித்தேன். அது புகழ்பெற்றது. பிறகு வந்த வாய்ப்புகள் அனைத்தும் நாரதர் வேடங்களாக வந்ததால் மறுத்துவிட்டேன்.
இப்போது ‘கதை’ படத்தில் நான் பாடிய பாடல் ஒன்று இடம்பெறுகிறது. அந்த பாடலை பாடுவது போன்று நடிக்கிறேன். சினிமாவில் நடித்தது குறைவுதான். காரணம் என் முழு கவனமும் இசையின் பக்கம் இருந்தது. இப்போது நிறைய நேரம் இருக்கிறது. நல்ல கேரக்டரோடு வாய்ப்பு தந்தால் தொடர்ந்து நடிப்பேன்.
யாரையும் யாரோடும் ஒப்பிட வேண்டாம்!
ரஹ்மான் ஆஸ்கர் வாங்கியது பற்றி நிறைய கேட்டு விட்டார்கள். நானும் நிறைய சொல்லிவிட்டேன். இந்த விஷயத்தில் நான் அதிகம் சங்கடப்பட்டது விருது பெற்ற ரஹ்மானோடு இளையராஜாவையும் மற்றவர்களையும் ஒப்பிட்டு வந்த செய்திகள் மற்றும் அரைவேக்காட்டுத்தனமான கட்டுரைகள்.
ரஹ்மான் ஒரு இளம் மேதை. அவர் ஆஸ்கர் விருது வாங்கியது எல்லாருக்கும் பெருமையான விஷயம்தான். ஆனால் அதற்காக மற்ற மேதைகளை சிறுமைப்படுத்தும் போக்கு, உண்மையான இசை ரசிகர்கள் செய்யும் வேலையல்ல.
இசை பொதுவானது. யாருக்கும் பட்டா போட்டுக் கொடுத்து விடவில்லை. ஆனால் தனக்குத் தெரிந்த வித்தையை மட்டுமே விஸ்தாரமாகக் காட்டிக் கொண்டிருக்காமல், இசையின் இலக்கணத்தை மீறாமல் சாதனைகள் படைத்துக் கொண்டிருப்பவர் ராஜா. அவருக்கு விருதுகள் ஒரு பெரிய விஷயமல்ல. விருதுகளைத் தாண்டிய மகா கலைஞன் அவர். நியாயமாக இப்போது உலகின் உயர்ந்த இசை விருதுகள் அவரைத் தேடி வரவேண்டும்.
இன்னொரு விஷயம் தெரிந்து கொள்ளுங்கள். உலகின் அனைத்து இசைக்கும் ஆதி இந்திய இசையே. இங்கிருந்துதான் சகலமும் ஆரம்பம். ஒரு இந்திய இசையமைப்பாளருக்கு தெரிந்த ஆத்மார்த்தமான இசையை வெளிநாட்டுக்காரனால் தரமுடியாது.
நான் உலகின் பெரும்பாலான இசையைத் தெரிந்து வைத்திருக்கிறேன். பல மொழிகளில் பாடியிருக்கிறேன். அந்த அனுபவத்தில் சொல்கிறேன். இந்திய சாஸ்திரிய இசைக்கு இணையில்லை. அந்த சாஸ்திரிய இசையில் கரை கண்டவர் இளையராஜா என்றார் பாலமுரளி கிருஷ்ணா.
இளையராஜாவின் இசையில் சின்னக் கண்ணன் அழைக்கிறான்... என்ற காலத்தால் அழியாத இனிய பாடலைப் பாடியவர் டாக்டர் பாலமுரளி கிருஷ்ணா. ராஜாவின் திருவாசகம் ஆரட்டோரியோவை வெளியி்ட்டவரும் அவரே.
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From: Plum on 15th March 2009 07:33 PM [Full View]
I wanted to include this in my earlier reply to Plum. I'm with Bala on this.
"
idhu objective type question illai - essay in not less than 400 words please
(actually, for me, the discussions here are not an end itself - merely means - I bring my baggage and am willing to discard if the futility of it is pointed out. Andha sense-la, we are talking without defining common ground on this point - let's elaborate on this.)
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From: Plum on 15th March 2009 07:37 PM [Full View]
"plum - i answered back to u because i felt u had "misinfomed" notions abt thalaivar's style.........but as we moved into arguement i found u have too much of "assumptions" , which would take a very great deal of time to be cleared.........anyways, my offer for u at geoffery's is still open.....we can clear it over there......
//offer valid only for Plum //"
Maddy, naan Rahman maadhiri indha vishayathula- no alcohol intake.
Orange juice kudikkaradhukkaga, chennai vandhi appura, geoffrey'lam vara mudiyadhupa
Sari, assumption-nu thonina, put forth the point - enakku opukara madhiri irundha puthukkaren. Illaina, let's agree to disagree - ivlo dhaan vishayame.
But one thing, Rahman's ouevre is not vast - perumbaalum I was around when released every single piece of his stuff so my opinions are based on hearing most of his output including BGM - there is little of Rahman you can point to me that I do not know already - the Banyan type of non-filmi stuff maybe.
If you feel my opinions are misformed, thats it. I am not going to justify my opinions - merely share it - adhukku appuram dismiss pandradhu illai engage pandradhu your choice.
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From: Vivasaayi on 15th March 2009 07:40 PM [Full View]
A.Anand
why posted with comments?...
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From: MADDY on 15th March 2009 07:53 PM [Full View]
oh cool.......orange juice dhaane - mindla vechhikkuren..... :P Originally Posted by Plum
Maddy, naan Rahman maadhiri indha vishayathula- no alcohol intake.
Orange juice kudikkaradhukkaga, chennai vandhi appura, geoffrey'lam vara mudiyadhupa
this is what i call an assumption........ Originally Posted by Plum
anyways, nice talking to u
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From: P_R on 15th March 2009 08:07 PM [Full View]
Last few pages...wouldn't claim I understood much. Surely unequal to this debate. So let me subtract all possible context and look at this statement in isolation and say: "I object". Originally Posted by Plum
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From: jaaze on 15th March 2009 08:58 PM [Full View]
Originally Posted by Prabhu Ram
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From: crajkumar_be on 15th March 2009 09:44 PM [Full View]
Disagree! Originally Posted by Plum
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From: VENKIRAJA on 15th March 2009 09:47 PM [Full View]
But, amidst all this I dare say that its the sugar-coating that makes Rahman so very special. Jai Ho, without that attribute wouldn't have won the statuette. IMVHO.
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From: MrJudge on 16th March 2009 10:57 AM [Full View]
MADDY: Originally Posted by Plum
Compare that 'mAttu vandi' song with 'enna pAttu pAda' and tell me which song has the nativity feel. The lyrics, his voice, the way he used the instruments make Raaja win hands-down. If you can't feel the difference between those two and are evoked with the same kind of feel, ennaththa solla....
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From: Plum on 16th March 2009 11:15 AM [Full View]
CR & PR, ouevre-ngara word-ai thappa use pannitena?If I think in IR terms, Rahman's ouevre isnt really vast! Numerically, may I add? Idhula enna kuzhappam, assumption?
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From: jaaze on 16th March 2009 11:21 AM [Full View]
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From: P_R on 16th March 2009 11:30 AM [Full View]
Approximate word being range/variety....correct ?(illayA).
If so then it would be difficult to say Rahman's is limited, even in comparison.
This dangerously heading back towards definition of genres and their clinical distinctions so as to count and define ground covered. Quite an HanumAr vaal a passing remark has created.
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From: Plum on 16th March 2009 11:32 AM [Full View]
"Even if you take Jotheyalli, only the Tamil version 'worked'. North Indies didn't digest "Jaane Do Na" rather well - a version which is even better than the original!!! "
CR, my ranking would be the pristine Kannada original, then Shreya's honey-soaked Jaane Do Na, only then Vizhiyinil. Nothing comes close to the original - the essence of the song is distilled in one moment when S Janaki goes "modadalli..." starting the second stanza. The lyrics and the words in Hindi are so ordinary(not from poetry POV, but from a "fitting into the tune seamlesly" POV) that renders the corresponding moment in Hindi comparitively 'magicless'!
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From: sarna_blr on 16th March 2009 11:52 AM [Full View]
<<< Nothing comes close to the original >>>
I some times feel lyrics , singer's voice also play on the whole
dig//
even if u take "madura marikozhundhu vaasam", telugu one "yamaho nee yamaa yamaa yaama" is awesome wn comparing with tamizh ( i dunno which one is original )
even suvvi suvvi is better than thulli thulli
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From: Plum on 16th March 2009 12:36 PM [Full View]
prabhu ram, no I'm just looking to understand not asking for definitions. Ok, from your explanation, I can see we just understand that word differently. Just referred online dictionaries and they seem to define oeuvre(I had got the spelling wrong originally!) as lifetime's work summarised. I simply used it as "collection of lifetime work", so my point was simply that numerically, Rahman's life time work is not substantial in numeric terms- which is not to say he is inferior - it pains me that I have to explain this in each comment(this is not for PR, whose point was different).
This is just like another discussion where someone used the word prolific genius for Rahman. Genius, yes. Prolific, no. For obvious reasons. Maddy, this is where you need to understand your own assumptions. I mean, when I say Rahman is not prolific, it doesnt take an iota of credit from him - just that word doesnt suit him, thats all. Its the same with oeuvre as I understand that word. No, Rahman's oeuvre is not substantial numerically - if I have to listen to all of Rahman's output and digest it, it is not a difficult task, and particularly so because I was around for every release of a Rahman album and every single Rahman album has been released with lots of fanfare so very unlikely that I missed it. Yes, there is the odd Banyan theme music which I have missed but I believe, unlike IR, where even the most dedicated fan will keep discovering albums he has missed. And in my particular case, since I started following his music in the 80's only, how do I even know the albums from 70's I missed?
Plus, even such a dedicated fan as Rajasaranam didnt know about Akka Mahadevi released around 1999 until I pointed to him. Even during the time I was following IR, there have been quite releases like this which didnt get much fanfare so yes, I believe it is harder for me to even list the complete works of Raja as compared to Rahman.
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From: jaaze on 16th March 2009 12:41 PM [Full View]
One could drive a prairie schooner through any part of his argument and never scrape against a fact
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From: P_R on 16th March 2009 12:45 PM [Full View]
Oho neenga appidi sonneengaLA (read oho andha waerdukku adhu dhaan meaning-A). Then yeah of course.
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From: jaaze on 16th March 2009 12:48 PM [Full View]
Well you can say that a long dispute means both parties are wrong.
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From: Plum on 16th March 2009 12:50 PM [Full View]
Sarna_blr, that's true. Most of the times, in the case of artistes like IR, who like to imbibe the cultural context of the film they are involved in, the original stands best because it was spontaneously created on the spur of a moment with a specific cultural context in mind. However, there are many exceptions, too, and this depends on multiple factors
1) Execution failure - simple example is Geethanjali-Idhayathai T, with Mano single-handedly killing all life in the songs. I believe that the change of setting from Telugu to Tamil didnt have much effect here because Mani's characters werent really rooted to any teluguness. They were generic, and the translation from Telugu to Tamil wasnt of much impact as much as Mano's failure.
2) Context of Translation - In the case of Jotehyalli, note that the singers are the same in Tamil. Still, I find magic in the original lacking in Tamil. This might partly be the better picturisation by that crafty filmmaker Shankar Nag(and despite the ghastly heroine ), compared to Mohan's horrible under-shower antics with Nalini, which has left me a lasting scar
3) Viewer perception - simply if I say that I liked Endhu Paranjalum better than Pachai Mala Poovu, when thousands would swear by the original Pachai Mala Poovu, whose fault is it. Maybe, the tighter parent-offspring relationship in the former appealed to me more than the one in Kizhaku Vaasal, which is 'alien' to me.
4) On Suvvi Suvvi, this is a walkover becuase that music is so Godavari-esque.(although Viswanath doesnt say whether it is Krishna or Godavari). It just can't be tamilised with the same effect - a reason I quoted yesterday as a reason for the failure of Praaptham
5) Madura Marikozhundu Vaasam - again I blame Mano. Otherwise, there is nothing to choose - and in fact, the charming Pacharisi maavu chorus should have tilted the scales in favour of the tamil version - but it loses out just because it had Mano and the telugu version had SPB.
6) Consider Edhalo Kalise, which was the same tune as Edhuta Neeve, used in successive Vamsi movies. The context in both cases is entirely different, and both score strongly on context-rootedness. Both were big hits, too. I cant choose between either.
7) Counter example- Devadhai Ilam Devi VS Kelade Nimageega. The voice chorus, much feted in the Kannada version, is the reason I rate it lesser than the former. Again, this might be my perception more than anything else
8) Again, SPB did a better job with the telugu version of Unnai Vida. Then again, this might be my perception.
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From: sarna_blr on 16th March 2009 02:23 PM [Full View]
still I couldnt get the exact meaning (wt u people trying to convey and how exactly suits with IR's work) of bolded phrases even after reading last couple of pages also Originally Posted by Plum
sari vidunga
chances are more Originally Posted by Plum
2) Context of Translation - In the case of Jotehyalli, note that the singers are the same in Tamil. Still, I find magic in the original lacking in Tamil. This might partly be the better picturisation by that crafty filmmaker Shankar Nag(and despite the ghastly heroine ), compared to Mohan's horrible under-shower antics with Nalini, which has left me a lasting scar
I guess she the patni of the Great Shankernag
Originally Posted by Plum
unga vayasu enna south india's moola mudukku cultural context'a ellaam karachchi kudichchirukkeenga
// I am not sure about Godavaru-esque //
Originally Posted by Plum
I prefer kEladhE nimageega to Devadhai ilam devi... even the voice chorus was well suited for the song situation Originally Posted by Plum
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From: Plum on 16th March 2009 03:26 PM [Full View]
sarna_blr, karaichu kudikkaradhukku adhu enna horlicks-aa?
Apdi ellam illai - idhellame en perception dhaan.
If you are a Mano fan, sorry. Evlo liberal-a irundhaalum, avarukku pass mark kodukka mudiyalai.
Is that Arundhati Nag? If so, respect. Should remind myself again not to judge anyone by looks.
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From: sarna_blr on 16th March 2009 04:01 PM [Full View]
nope Originally Posted by Plum
sorry I got confused
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From: Plum on 16th March 2009 04:42 PM [Full View]
"Plum wrote:
Is that Arundhati Nag? .
nope
sorry I got confused
"
Ippo I'm confused - did you say the actress in Jotheyalli was Shankar Nag's pathni?
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From: sarna_blr on 16th March 2009 04:48 PM [Full View]
Plum , Arundhathi Nag is shankernag's patni
I have cine-kisu-kisu kinda doubt wrt to the actress in jotheyali song vEnaam vittudunga
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From: sarna_blr on 16th March 2009 05:02 PM [Full View]
Originally Posted by Plum
sarna_blr, karaichu kudikkaradhukku adhu enna horlicks-aa?
Apdi ellam illai - idhellame en perception dhaan.
music paththi detail'aa pEsureenga adhula culture'a mix panni pEsureenga culture'na tamizh naattu village culture's mattum illa, mumbai, godavari, china, kErala , southafrica etc ipdi pala oor culture'a paththi pEsureenga
iththanayum perception dhaanaa
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From: Plum on 16th March 2009 05:02 PM [Full View]
oh! ok, ok. Pathni-ndra word confused me
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From: jaaze on 16th March 2009 07:11 PM [Full View]
You argue with the umpire because there is nothing else you can do about it.
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From: Plum on 16th March 2009 07:57 PM [Full View]
sarna_blr, en eprception-na, pure vaccum-la en perrception illai. I am just saying these are what you get when you filter my experiences of these locations, cultures and people through my mind. Obviously, a lot of my perception is involved. I hope you didnt think of it as purely my perception in vaccum a la the hero of Bharathiraaja's Kangalal Kaidhu Sei
(I keep stressing on perception because that is a good thing to understand in these discussions - everything is coloured by the perception of the person experiencign it - there is not much to argue but to share which is my view of the utility of these forums - again, this is obvious but I am stressing it to reiterate the fact that we should be free to express our opinions without worrying over whether to placate this camp or the other.)
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From: app_engine on 16th March 2009 09:28 PM [Full View]
For an extremely talented person like ARR, given the fact that Bala takes years sometimes to make a film, it won't be difficult to compose songs / BGM - even if he hasn't done exactly similar stuff before. That is if at all it needs some "learning" of the situation / circumstances / surroundings (I don't think ARR is totally alien to any sensibilities in TN), still he has adequate time to do it
Dismissing without ever trying doesn't sound logical to me (even if he stands by the side of IR in this case). On a similar vein, while it may not be child's play (as in the case of BR movies), it won't be impossible for IR to score for any of the Hollywood kind of movies. konjam time, konjam focus vENum - avvaLavu thAn, the basic stuff otherwise is extra strong
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From: thamizhvaanan on 16th March 2009 09:34 PM [Full View]
Yes Plum.. perception is the word and calling IR's music to be more rooted is result of one's habituated perception. One should consider the era in which he operated... the audience had little exposure to outside world.. everything available was made in India, everything manufactured came from inside, everything was native so should be the music. Consider the bulk of music he did and how much he dominated that era of music making. It is very easy to understand how everyone's memories of Indian music and Tamil music is heavily scented with IR's style of music making, so much so that his style of music would be perceived as the definitive one for rootedness. Was he? Yes, but not that much as it is made out to be.
Our memories are so much tinted with his compositions that even when he calls upon mighty orchestral brilliance to elevate a simple rural love as in "Andha nilava" from Mudhal mariyadhai, we are programmed to overlook those and consider it as rooted. Ofcourse it helped that he mostly sticks to traditional percussion instruments and flute (even the flute usage is more WCM like than Indian, even Naveen's flute arrangements in ARR songs are relatively more indian - Carnatic)
Imagine the case with ARR. He burst into the scene when India was opening its door to the west. Anything new he tried, any external influence will be readily pattern matched with west and categorized as non-indian. And for comparison sake, ARR had more contemporary intakes compared to IR's WCM influences, making it all the more susceptible to be called "west influenced" in an era well-exposed to the west. Imagine IR having influences of pink floyd, scorpions, sting etc., in his heydays... how straightforward it would have been to brand it non-indian.
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From: crajkumar_be on 16th March 2009 09:45 PM [Full View]
TV,
For the 21st time, whether a Raaja has WCM influences or not is not the point. The point of contention is not about western influences - its about what is ELSE is there.
And not for the first time are you making an assertion that IR's music doesn't have "global" influences or genres or whatever (specifically your last line). Facets you would find in a classic rock song were aplenty in a Raaja song but ultimately it is a RAAJA song. Thats why is the most original creator Indian Film industry has ever seen
And an interview of ARR i recently read (i think Compli posted it here) clearly seals how exactly the two geniuses are different. In fact, it also clinches the argument doing the rounds here. "Global sounds" is a kind of end for one, whereas it is incidental for the other
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From: app_engine on 16th March 2009 09:46 PM [Full View]
It's like dismissing a .net programmer as 'oh, he can't do mainframe stuff'
A top-notch coder may not be able to design a rocket but within his realm - i.e. software, he can "code" in any environment - including embedded stuff, given decent amount of time, IMO. (And I've seen 100's of examples).
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From: thamizhvaanan on 16th March 2009 09:57 PM [Full View]
Precisely! Originally Posted by crajkumar_be
WCM influences irundhaalum matha "vishayangal" irukradhala Raaja song native nu solreenga... adhey madhiri ARR songs layum "vishayangal" irukkunu solla varen
I never said Raaja's songs are not native . I just pointed out that the circumstances in which IR & ARR operated has contributed to perceiving one as more rooted than other. Imagine a man making music for one whole generation.. any song they pick from their childhood will be his, it will be there in anything that one associates with his memories. Clearly it will feel more native.
Correction... only my last line. If I made it sound so, I stand corrected.And not for the first time are you making an assertion that IR's music doesn't have "global" influences or genres or whatever (specifically your last line). Facets you would find in a classic rock song were aplenty in a Raaja song but ultimately it is a RAAJA song. Thats why is the most original creator Indian Film industry has ever seen
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From: app_engine on 16th March 2009 10:09 PM [Full View]
http://jeyamohan.in/?p=2074
Nice reply by Jeyamohan to the letter from an IR fan.
I agree with him that the film music genre is neither totally folk or classical. They are all pop / commercial and trying to identify which is more folk / more classical etc is definitely a subjective exercise.
While it may be somewhat easier for experts to separate the "semi-classical" part (because of the rigorous grammer laid out for classicals), it'll be too difficult , even impossible, to identify or separate 'authentic folk' on musical terms
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From: Vivasaayi on 16th March 2009 10:10 PM [Full View]
just now read it...thought of posting it in this thread. Originally Posted by app_engine
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From: thamizhvaanan on 16th March 2009 10:13 PM [Full View]
Originally Posted by app_engine
http://jeyamohan.in/?p=2074
Nice reply by Jeyamohan to the letter from an IR fan.
I agree with him that the film music genre is neither totally folk or classical. They are all pop / commercial and trying to identify which is more folk / more classical etc is definitely a subjective exercise.
While it may be somewhat easier for experts to separate the "semi-classical" part (because of the rigorous grammer laid out for classicals), it'll be too difficult , even impossible, to identify or separate 'authentic folk' on musical terms
Lots of such aspects are subjective. It can be very much futile to try to pass off some inferences as solid facts, wonder why we spend so much breath on it.
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From: jaiganes on 16th March 2009 11:16 PM [Full View]
Just a moot point - IR and rock music.
When I heard the guitar riffs in the starting of 'Uravenum' song in Nenjaththai killadhe, the expectation was that it would be a quintessential rock song - however it ceases to be a 'Rock' song - but proceeds on to become a 'soft rock' to a conterpoint melody backed by rock instrumentation. The amplitude needed to enhance some 'rock' feel is actually subdued and proceeds in a WCM string melody backed up by soft drums - I mean he stops himself from making a 'head banging' rock stuff - something stops IR from doing that probably a fear of total alienation from our masses - probably - probably not or something else..
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From: crajkumar_be on 16th March 2009 11:30 PM [Full View]
Not just Raaja, nobody in IFM has gone all the way with a rock song. To an extent, "My Life" by Yuvan. Other than that, only "Johny Gaddar" (to an extent) "Paanch" and "DevD" are exceptions Originally Posted by jaiganes
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From: irir123 on 17th March 2009 06:00 AM [Full View]
how abt 'Megam kotattum' ? wudnt that fall under 'Rock' genre ?
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From: Dilbert on 17th March 2009 06:53 AM [Full View]
EKBI ... Indianla we can't have anything thatz called as " Pure ROCK/POP Music" but yes can have .. rock = kaalu.. Originally Posted by crajkumar_be
All the so called western music what we get to hear is just blended in Indian sauce.. just like Indian chinese food. Nothing authentic..
Even if they try to be .. they can't be.. thatz cirgal of life..
MSV = Had influence of Brits and American old numbers
IR = Had / Has influence of Brits and American rock bands.. again
ARR = Had / Has influence of Middle eastern, Asian , Brits, American.. thatz the power of communication age.. !
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From: groucho070 on 17th March 2009 07:12 AM [Full View]
Jazz? Always thought IR had plenty of Jazz influence when he is doing "modern pop" numbers. The horn section, man, blazing away like its 1940s or something. (and I lauv Bebop, Modern jazz). Originally Posted by irir123
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From: sarna_blr on 17th March 2009 09:34 AM [Full View]
ippa theliva puriyudhu Originally Posted by Plum
sarna_blr, en eprception-na, pure vaccum-la en perrception illai. I am just saying these are what you get when you filter my experiences of these locations, cultures and people through my mind. Obviously, a lot of my perception is involved. I hope you didnt think of it as purely my perception in vaccum a la the hero of Bharathiraaja's Kangalal Kaidhu Sei
well said Originally Posted by Plum
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From: jaaze on 17th March 2009 10:15 AM [Full View]
yes? Originally Posted by groucho070
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From: jaaze on 17th March 2009 10:16 AM [Full View]
Change the thread title to ARR vs IR debate. Bala no longer seems to be in the discussion
(Looking for the thread starter 
)
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From: Plum on 17th March 2009 11:22 AM [Full View]
"It's like dismissing a .net programmer as 'oh, he can't do mainframe stuff'
"
It's not as simple as that. It is a folly to compare arts and a tech-profession.
For instance, if we said Deva cannot do Minsaara Kanavu or Delhi-6, will you contend?
I am not worried about what Rahman/Raja have NOT DONE at all - I wouldnt say they are not capable of doing it based on that.
On rootedness, in my opinion Rahman has mixed results. As CR has mentioned in the last 2 pages somewhere, this has to do with clearly the objective that Rahman brought into his film music - he clearly states that he found that the prevailing music doesnt reflect the taste of an youngster who, for instance, wants the arabic sounds etc, or in other words, world music genres. It was his stated objective to change the popular music genre in TN/India(film music) to experiment with world music sounds. This very fact militates against rootedness - and that is not a good or a bad thing. This is his philosophy, and after the initial few years of resistance, I have come to understand and embrace it. He is a visionary in that sense - the first time he made the BGM 'orthogonal to the visuals', as he explained it, in Rang De Basanti, I couldnt relate to it. By Slumdog, that approach had settled in my mind as a valid approach. At the best, we can say that I dont relate to it as much as I would relate to Raja's BGM, which is exactly in line with the director's vision and conventional. It is not that either cannot do the other's way - just that they wouldnt want to.
When Rahman's vision is more about changing popular music structures, the fidelity to the underlying film takes secondary importance - and that's why it works fabulously in movies like Slumdog, where there is no intention to really root anywhere - though Mumbai is the chosen location, as learned critics observed, it could be anywhere - Rio de Janeiro or Cape Town. This approach will not work with a Sethu or a Pithamagan, though I'm not naive to believe that Rahman cannot change himself to suit a Sethu.
Stating this is not to compare Raja and Rahman in favourable or unfavourable light.
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From: rajasaranam on 17th March 2009 11:37 AM [Full View]
Explanation please. I think Raaja has done it before, if what Iam understanding is right. Originally Posted by Plum
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From: Plum on 17th March 2009 11:48 AM [Full View]
RS, I am not good at ferreting out links. I do remember an interview by Rahman where he says when he and RO Mehra were discussing the BGM, they decided to soften the impact of the 'pessimistic' or 'negative' finish of the movie with 'hopeful', 'optimistic' music. In this sense, that is clearly in line with the director's vision - though I believe that Mehra wasnt too sure what he wanted and Rahman felt that was a good choice- and what a good choice it turned out to be because RDB appealed to people who really got the appeal of the "be the change" message, and a Kan Sivandhal Mann sivakkum type of impact from the movie would have been counter productive. I think a lot of credit for this goes to Rahman, as much as Mehra is the final authority.
I don't remember if it was Rahman who suggested a similar approach to Danny Boyle or vice-versa, but they took a similar approach for Slumdog. I think Rahman mentioned that he suggested the same approach to Boyle for Slumdog. The word 'orthogonal' was introduced by me in this context.
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From: Plum on 17th March 2009 11:55 AM [Full View]
I'd like to add here that Rang De Basanti the movie didnt appeal to me for precisely the same reasons I have quoted as why people liked it. But that doesnt stop me from understanding what Rahman achieved with this movie, and recognising that. These discussions on Slumdog and RDB from Rahman's side are what contribute to my thinking that he doesn't like 'negative emotions'. This is what I called the tendency to sugar-coat or avoidance of plumbing depths of desolation. However, I realise this could be a valid approach if in line with the director's vision(as with Mehra) or if Rahman can collobarate and convince the director that this should be the vision for the movie(as with Boyle).
Having said that, this doesnt prove that Rahman will refuse to score for Pithamagan or Naan Kadavul. But I doubt if he would, given that his feeling seems to be on the side of keeping optimism a message in his movies. And I could be horribly wrong - just that I havent been proven wrong yet.
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From: rajasaranam on 17th March 2009 12:16 PM [Full View]
The songs for Naan Kadavul were composed even before going for the shoot, when Bala himself was not clear about how the movie is going to shape. Bala Late pannuvaar athukku mela ARR'um late panna enna aagarathu ?!! And this was the first time Bala had been in such a dilemma otherwise he completes his screenplay well in advance before going to shoot, and obviously he needs his songs also ready before that unlike Shankar Originally Posted by app_engine
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From: rajasaranam on 17th March 2009 12:33 PM [Full View]
Just thinking about it and I cant remember any 'Negative' or 'morbid' movies done by him!!! Rahman has missed many more genres to explore musically - Thriller for instance. I personally feel he will do a good job in racy thrillers. (Is it a reason for him to refuse working with RGV on Vaasthu Shashthra?!! The movie turned out to be dud is different matter) Originally Posted by Plum
Bala is right in saying that Rahman's music will not suit his movies - He can only state that from the past works of Rahman. Raaja on the other hand has a vast repertoire of genres of movies that you name it he would have done that.
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From: sarna_blr on 17th March 2009 12:40 PM [Full View]
Uruvam padaththOda MD yaaru ? BGM was excellent
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From: rajasaranam on 17th March 2009 12:42 PM [Full View]
He he he 'Raaja' thaan Originally Posted by sarna_blr
Uruvam padaththOda MD yaaru ? BGM was excellent There are many more Horror/ thrillers in his kitty '100vathu naal, december pookal, Vidinja Kalyanam, Pillai Nila, 24 mani neram, sikappu rojakkal... to name a few
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From: sarna_blr on 17th March 2009 12:52 PM [Full View]
BGM ivlO excellent'aa irukkumbOdhu mild'aa oru doubt irundhadhu Originally Posted by rajasaranam
He he he 'Raaja' thaan Originally Posted by sarna_blr
Uruvam padaththOda MD yaaru ? BGM was excellent There are many more Horror/ thrillers in his kitty '100vathu naal, december pookal, Vidinja Kalyanam, Pillai Nila, 24 mani neram, sikappu rojakkal... to name a few namma raajaavaadhaan irukkum'nu
recently I saw this movie in Raj Digital plus, horror+thriller+aphrodisiac movie :P
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From: sarna_blr on 17th March 2009 12:58 PM [Full View]
but I love Rahman's BGM especially in Rajini's movie..... PADAYAPPA
recently Sivaji
plum , wts ur perception on this ? curious to know
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From: sgokulprathap on 17th March 2009 01:00 PM [Full View]
Bala thread, ARR thread yellAm kaathu vaangudhu. inga ivlO discussion nadakudhu.
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From: Plum on 17th March 2009 01:05 PM [Full View]
sarna_blr, padayappa matrum sivaji patri enna solvadhunnu theriyalai. Sivaji especially went above my head - I am not qualified to comment really on those (mathadhu comment panna mattum qualification irukkannu ketka koodadhu ). Wasnt Padayappa background score by Sabesh-Murali?
My feeling Sivaji is kind of home ground for Rahman - it is fertile playground for him to experiment with various genres - the movie doesnt really constrain him with its emotions.
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From: jaaze on 17th March 2009 01:05 PM [Full View]
This thread should hence be locked to allow discussions in the main thread Originally Posted by sgokulprathap
Bala thread, ARR thread yellAm kaathu vaangudhu. inga ivlO discussion nadakudhu.
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From: crajkumar_be on 17th March 2009 01:45 PM [Full View]
I would call it "Raaja" genre with rock elements Originally Posted by irir123
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From: crajkumar_be on 17th March 2009 01:47 PM [Full View]
Idha vida theliva solradhu kashtam!
Originally Posted by Plum
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From: sarna_blr on 17th March 2009 01:56 PM [Full View]
Originally Posted by Plum
nope .... its by ARR
yeah.... but rahman polandhukattiyiruppaapla Originally Posted by Plum
// But Rajini film will have lot of Rajinism.... andha rajinisthukku thaalampoda sariyaana aal rahman'nu ennoda feeling or perception .... idha paththi pEsanum'naa nammullukkulla oru rajini fan irukkanum
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From: jaaze on 17th March 2009 02:00 PM [Full View]
Thaaralama.. ARR section-la Rajin & ARR thread irukku Originally Posted by sarna_blr
Originally Posted by Plum
nope .... its by ARR
yeah.... but rahman polandhukattiyiruppaapla Originally Posted by Plum
// But Rajini film will have lot of Rajinism.... andha rajinisthukku thaalampoda sariyaana aal rahman'nu ennoda feeling or perception .... idha paththi pEsanum'naa nammullukkulla oru rajini fan irukkanum
anga discuss pannalaam
Intha thread-la yaavarum nalam irukkuthaam..
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From: viraajan on 17th March 2009 02:02 PM [Full View]
To me, Sivaji BGM was mediocre. Originally Posted by sarna_blr
yeah.... but rahman polandhukattiyiruppaapla
// But Rajini film will have lot of Rajinism.... andha rajinisthukku thaalampoda sariyaana aal rahman'nu ennoda feeling or perception .... idha paththi pEsanum'naa nammullukkulla oru rajini fan irukkanum
Kadamaikku'nu pottu kodutha madiri irundhuchu...
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From: sarna_blr on 17th March 2009 02:07 PM [Full View]
at first view/listening , I felt like that only.... but on repeated view/listening i started loving them Originally Posted by viraajan
To me, Sivaji BGM was mediocre.
Kadamaikku'nu pottu kodutha madiri irundhuchu...
But PADAYAPPA BGM was topnotch for Rajinism
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From: crajkumar_be on 17th March 2009 02:12 PM [Full View]
Oh, ippo oru pudhu branch-a? en pangukku naanum...
In my opinion, the quintessential "Rajini" factor - Deva is the man And title music na, peche illa, untouchable
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From: viraajan on 17th March 2009 02:15 PM [Full View]
Engalikku veru engum kilaigal kidaiyadhu
T Nagar Panagal Park Edhiril...
Betw, Deva -
Baadhsa BGM remains the best till date (of course, copied thaan )
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From: sarna_blr on 17th March 2009 02:20 PM [Full View]
adhu raththaththula ooriduchchu Originally Posted by viraajan
Baadhsa BGM remains the best till date (of course, copied thaan )
tattattaadadattaaan tattattaadadattaaan taan....dattaaan.... vavavoooooooooo
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From: viraajan on 17th March 2009 02:22 PM [Full View]
Originally Posted by sarna_blr
adhu raththaththula ooriduchchu Originally Posted by viraajan
Baadhsa BGM remains the best till date (of course, copied thaan )
tattattaadadattaaan tattattaadadattaaan taan....dattaaan.... vavavoooooooooo
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From: Vivasaayi on 17th March 2009 02:22 PM [Full View]
rajnism,rajni factor - etc uruvanadhukku oru mukkiya karanam "IR"
"Podhuvaga en manasu thangam" than pillayar suzhi
IR mattum 80sla thaalam podama irundhirundha....rajni,kamal mudhal mohan,ramarajan padam varaikum dappa dance aadirukkum.
IRs music played a huge part the success rate of those heroes' movies.
regarding ARR for rajni - vetrikodi kattu was the best number for rajni in his last 10 movies or so...i mean among the rajni type songs
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From: viraajan on 17th March 2009 02:24 PM [Full View]
Originally Posted by Vivasaayi
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From: jaaze on 17th March 2009 02:25 PM [Full View]
Originally Posted by viraajan
Originally Posted by sarna_blr
adhu raththaththula ooriduchchu Originally Posted by viraajan
Baadhsa BGM remains the best till date (of course, copied thaan )
tattattaadadattaaan tattattaadadattaaan taan....dattaaan.... vavavoooooooooo
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From: jaaze on 17th March 2009 02:26 PM [Full View]
kamal factor urvaaguvathukku kaaranamum IR thaan (thenpaandi cheemayile, guna etc) Originally Posted by viraajan
Originally Posted by Vivasaayi
Vadivelu: Eppadi annan pudhu branch open pannen paathiya
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From: Vivasaayi on 17th March 2009 02:28 PM [Full View]
posta fulla padikamatha reply pannuveengalo?... Originally Posted by jaaze
kamal factor urvaaguvathukku kaaranamum IR thaan (thenpaandi cheemayile, guna etc) Originally Posted by viraajan
Originally Posted by Vivasaayi
Vadivelu: Eppadi annan pudhu branch open pannen paathiya
read my post fully.
And I dont think there is a "kamal factor" separately....which is ironically the "kamal factor"
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From: jaaze on 17th March 2009 02:28 PM [Full View]
This thread has become the chat thread of TF section with everyone posting 180* off topic / Ippadiye maintain panni itha TF sectionoda coffee corner-a maathidalam
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From: jaaze on 17th March 2009 02:31 PM [Full View]
Unga post-la sonna ramarajan ellam karai yaeri (?) poyaachu Originally Posted by Vivasaayi
posta fulla padikamatha reply pannuveengalo?... Originally Posted by jaaze
kamal factor urvaaguvathukku kaaranamum IR thaan (thenpaandi cheemayile, guna etc) Originally Posted by viraajan
Originally Posted by Vivasaayi
Vadivelu: Eppadi annan pudhu branch open pannen paathiya
read my post fully.
And I dont think there is a "kamal factor" separately....which is ironically the "kamal factor"
But I agree, avar padangalum success aaaga IR thunai purinjirukkaaru.
Rajini & Kamal 80's movies hits pala thanthirukkiraar. Avai innum makkalaal virumbi ketkkapadukinrana
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From: Plum on 17th March 2009 02:39 PM [Full View]
I have said all I have in my pot. Indha thread-ai idhukku mela izhuthu mooduvadhum moodaddhadhum moderator ishtam
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From: jaaze on 17th March 2009 02:41 PM [Full View]
Indha thread-ai idhukku mela izhuthu mooduvadhu ishtam
Nallaa iruppenga 
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From: crajkumar_be on 17th March 2009 02:46 PM [Full View]
Originally Posted by jaaze
kamal factor urvaaguvathukku kaaranamum IR thaan (thenpaandi cheemayile, guna etc) Originally Posted by viraajan
Originally Posted by Vivasaayi
Thread lock? amaam amaam Originally Posted by vivasayi
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From: jaaze on 17th March 2009 02:50 PM [Full View]
Originally Posted by crajkumar_be
Thread lock? amaam amaam 
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From: Thirumaran on 17th March 2009 02:51 PM [Full View]
Ok panjaayathu oru mudivukku vanthaachu... conclusion athe pazhaya conclusion thaan
IR the best for IR fans, ARR the best for ARR fans, Rajini the best for Rajini fans
Kamal the best for all 
Shall i lock or any new debates
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From: jaaze on 17th March 2009 02:52 PM [Full View]
Originally Posted by Thirumaran
Kamal the best for all Athaan naattami neengale solliteengale
Nalla thindugallu poottu vaangi podunga
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From: sarna_blr on 17th March 2009 02:57 PM [Full View]
I guess My name is Billa was the pillayaar suzhi :P MSV Originally Posted by Vivasaayi
// NOV anna vandhu aadunga
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From: sarna_blr on 17th March 2009 02:59 PM [Full View]
nope.... i have new debate :P Originally Posted by Thirumaran
Shall i lock or any new debates
whether MSV started Rajinism or IR started Rajinism
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From: rajasaranam on 17th March 2009 03:00 PM [Full View]
Thread Naayagan Bala pathi ethuvume sollatha intha ThIrpu oppukollapadavillai. Originally Posted by Thirumaran
Ok panjaayathu oru mudivukku vanthaachu... conclusion athe pazhaya conclusion thaan
IR the best for IR fans, ARR the best for ARR fans, Rajini the best for Rajini fans
Kamal the best for all
Shall i lock or any new debates
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From: Thirumaran on 17th March 2009 03:01 PM [Full View]
oh chatting aah.. ok chatting please continue in CC
As of now locking.. any further clarification to be put on IR and ARR do send the mods a request