Topic started by vohsendhan (@ 202.88.143.84) on Mon Jun 10 11:41:07 .
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Queen Elizabeth, who visited the Highgate Hill Muruhan temple in London on 6.6.2002 had been “greeted” by the priests. The Queen’s visit is “part of a programme to recognise Britain’s many faiths during her golden jubilee tour of the country”. This is the report appearing in the Times of India on 8.6.2002.

Queen Elizabeth is a Christian. She has been welcomed into the Hindu temple.
When Mr. Vayalar Ravi , a Hindu, was once the home minister of Kerala. He is now an MP of the Congress party got his son married in a Hindu temple in August 2000, the priests of the temple performed the purification ceremony later just because the presence of the Christian wife of Mr. Vayalar Ravi had, according to these priests, defiled the temple. Thus he had proved that Brahmanical fatwa was superior to and outside the purview of the Indian Constitution.

We therefore do not know whether or not the presence of the Christian Queen had been considered by the Brahmin priests of the temple as having polluted the Hindu temple. We do not know whether the Hindu priests performed the purification ceremony after the Queen had left the temple.


If they had not performed, we do not know whether such non-performance was because the reaction of the British would not be as foolish as that of Indian Sudras. Or, maybe, they had performed the ceremony cunningly and secretly later to preserve this convenient “tradition”. Or it may even be that according to them the Hindu tradition is meant to be practised only within the political boundaries of India, as this religious order is really meant for politicking.

But the answers to these questions are very essential to know the extent to which the Hindu clergy is going in perpetuating apartheid in the name of Hinduism.

I shall come back after hearing from the co-fighters for social equality and also from the perpetrators of apartheid in India and their non-Brahmin mercenaries.

Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Indian (@ hor186103.uea.ac.uk) on: Tue Aug 13 04:43:09
  
  
  To This MOF MV,
  
  Hey bast@rd, if your any part of the brain is not yet filled with bullsh!t ,
  
  Listen:--
  
  I have said in my first response nothing called aryanism. If you dont see it and were blind by your b@stardised father thoughts look back. When I said nothing called aryanism, there is no need for me to answer that question.
  
  >>What is this heaven and hell business? Looks like our brahminist frauds neither could digest the Semitic concepts nor could understand the Dravidian concepts of God and religion<<
  
  Again faggot, When you are blind how can you look.
  
  MOF if you are irritated and frustrated with your bleady birth (I really dont know who the actual cause for that may be) how can you understand the concepts.
  
  
• From: Ashok (@ nat-52.laurelnetworks.com) on: Tue Aug 13 16:22:44
  
  indian,
  
  >>I have answered your question from many angles. Right from cleanliness till Atman concept, you can find my answer.<<
  
  Milton asked you a very simple question, there are no angles to it. are you ready to condemn it or not, not that is there an atman or not. If we cannot accept whats wrong in our religion we can never change it.
  
  
• From: Ashok (@ nat-52.laurelnetworks.com) on: Tue Aug 13 16:25:11
  
  >>If we cannot accept whats wrong in our religion we can never change it. <<
  
  for got to add
  
  "If we cannot accept whats wrong in our (NOT MV AND OTHERS NOT FOLLOWING THE RELIGION) religion we can never change it."
  
  if I had nto written that last qoute MV would again harp on it, not to mention that I had already clarified long time ago, when MV was talking to Meghadutam about what the difference between our and your is...
  
  
• From: Indian (@ hor186103.uea.ac.uk) on: Tue Aug 13 16:47:07
  
  
  Ash,
  
  The question is not simple as it looks. I agree and even in my other reponses in various threads I had pointed out the problems in our religion.
  
  If a person knows the "TRUE HOLINESS" of the worship and is just stopped becuase of caste, I am ready to condemn it.
  
  PS: Before some one starts arguing on this, please note the capitalised TRUE HOLINESS.
  
  
• From: Ashok (@ nat-52.laurelnetworks.com) on: Tue Aug 13 17:04:02
  
  Indian,
  what is "true holiness"? byt whose definition? is our beloved vajpayee more "holy" than an untouchable? or is a brahmin more "holy". I see that you are a little unconfortable answering this, most people cannot judge "true holiness" by just seeing a person or hearing his name. If this kind of discrimination is practices it is to be condemned, it is a very simple concept, and there is no need to go into the intricasies of atma, prajapati, or paramatma. THere are some things which are horrible in our religion and we must reform them, and you should not feel uncomfortable in saying so. The BJP/Hindutva variety of Hinduism (which justified the sacrifice of horces in orrisa) is one of the condemnable parts of the religion. Lets jointly condemn them
  
  
• From: Indian (@ hor186103.uea.ac.uk) on: Tue Aug 13 17:43:50
  
  
  Ash,
  
  When I said TRUE HOLINESS, I didnot mean to some name or caste. Any person who has the belief can be said to have true holiness. Many of the other factors indeed represent True Holiness.
  
  Let me tell you something, In one of the books I read, A tribal person with his utmost devotion had offered meat to the Lord Siva in the temple. A priest had performed puja for him even. But, the kings of the region were not able to digest it. They restricted tribals entering the temple and the priest was thrown out.
  
  If we look from King's point of view, he built the temple and he likes God so much that he cannot tolerate such incidents. God need not come to tell every time to every one.
  
  I have also mentioned about atma etc. because I wanted to point out that every one is equal and our basic belief explains that. Worshipping may be different to different people. True holiness which one believes may not be same to other. For this, I had to mention about Islam and Christianity even. Sorry if I have done wrong.
  
  True. There are some things which are horrible. As time goes on old principles which may be correct at that time, will become horrible.
  
  
  I was talking quite decently till aggravated by Madurai Veeran. I am also a human being and to teach a lesson to barking dog, I have to remove my chappal and hit on his face. The same thing BJP/HIndutva is doing.
  
  I truly condemn BJP/Hindutva variety of Hinduism. They are supporting their acts on name of hinduism. But, can people understand decent words.
  
  In whole, I from my heart, mind and soul always ready to condemn, reform any heinous acts even in our religion.
  
  Nice to notice the word "jointly". :-)
  
  
• From: Ashok (@ nat-52.laurelnetworks.com) on: Tue Aug 13 18:13:42
  
  >>If we look from King's point of view, he built the temple and he likes God so much that he cannot tolerate such incidents. God need not come to tell every time to every one. <<
  
  Indian,
  Today indian temples are not a property of any one person or people but its government property. So there should be no such restriction.
  
  >>I have also mentioned about atma etc. because I wanted to point out that every one is equal and our basic belief explains that. Worshipping may be different to different people. True holiness which one believes may not be same to other. For this, I had to mention about Islam and Christianity even. Sorry if I have done wrong. <<
  
  There was no need to get into any of these for the sake of answering one question "do you condemn the restriction of untouchables into temples" that was not that tough a question. Its pretty much a yes or no.
  
  >>True. There are some things which are horrible. As time goes on old principles which may be correct at that time, will become horrible. <<
  
  Yes morals change oer time and there is nothing wrong in pointing out that there was something wrong with theearlier morals. (because this comparison is based on societal beliefs at this time).
  
  >>I was talking quite decently till aggravated by Madurai Veeran. I am also a human being and to teach a lesson to barking dog, I have to remove my chappal and hit on his face. The same thing BJP/HIndutva is doing. <<
  
  BJP/hindutva is doing what "dravidians" claim to do now. Paying for the old crimes of the earlier generations. Thats not how a society runs, we have to live at the present day independent india. Also BJP/Hindutva are enfocing lot of the horrid things too like "ashwamedh" based on their interpretation of what that meant. this is condemnable, and shoud be condemned. If we commit the same crimes as others then our society will never improve and then we loose the right to point out the mistakes of the muslim/christain invaders.
  
  >>I truly condemn BJP/Hindutva variety of Hinduism. They are supporting their acts on name of hinduism. But, can people understand decent words. <<
  
  what does sacrificing of horses have to do with decent words or some greater pan hindustva identity?
  
  
  >>In whole, I from my heart, mind and soul always ready to condemn, reform any heinous acts even in our religion. <<
  
  Thanks this is all that milton and I wanted to hear. And this is the first step for reformation of indian society.
  
  
• From: Indian (@ hor186074.uea.ac.uk) on: Tue Aug 13 18:41:46
  
  Ash,
  
  The answer I wanted to give is to the question which is raised from heart.
  
  >>Indian,
  Today indian temples are not a property of any one person or people but its government property. So there should be no such restriction<<
  
  Though its government property, we can see many temples still following the royal heritage.
  
  >>There was no need to get into any of these for the sake of answering one question "do you condemn the restriction of untouchables into temples" that was not that tough a question. Its pretty much a yes or no. <<
  
  Is the question just about me ? If I say "yes" there would have been so many arguments and if I say "no" again it would be different. If the argument hasn't come so long, there wouldnt be any meaning for my answer.
  
  >>what does sacrificing of horses have to do with decent words or some greater pan hindustva identity? <<
  
  I think >I truly condemn BJP/Hindutva variety of Hinduism. They are supporting their acts on name of hinduism.< was a answer for that.
  
  
  Anyway, it was a nice discussion.
  
  
• From: Ashok (@ nat-52.laurelnetworks.com) on: Tue Aug 13 18:52:25
  
  indian,
  >>Is the question just about me ? If I say "yes" there would have been so many arguments and if I say "no" again it would be different. If the argument hasn't come so long, there wouldnt be any meaning for my answer.<<
  
  I dont know if you have been following miltons posts. He is not out there to ridicule any religion. He asked me the same question a while ago, upon answering he just said thanks. I dont think he meant it as an argument and more just because he wants you take that first step for reformation. Which you have rightly done... Thanks for that.
  
  >>Though its government property, we can see many temples still following the royal heritage. <<
  
  Yes this is why it needs to be condemned. it is not any one groups property anymore. I have all the right to let or not let people into my house but not a place of worship that is not mine. THat is the argument. We have to stand as equals for the future of India, if we want an india which we can be proud of we should not fight amongst ourselves in the name of religion or caste. This we must do as indians, other things are only secondary, ie religion and stuff like that. thats what I wanted to convey!!
  
  
• From: Indian (@ hor186103.uea.ac.uk) on: Tue Aug 13 19:57:25
  
  
  To Ash,
  
  This thread is itself to ridicule the religion.
  
  To Milton:-
  
  While reciprocating to this thread, strangely I came across your question. Unfortunately, I mistook the question to some other in similar category. So, I had to talk all the relevant topics to give you the answer.
  
  Sorry If I had touched down your feelings. Accept my eulogies for your movement of reforming India.
  
  
• From: Milton (@ 203.116.61.131) on: Tue Aug 13 22:55:04
  
  Ashok,
  Thanks for your understanding.
  Indian,
  Thanks for your atleast positive response .I have no illintesion or I don't have any task to corner you .I just wanted to know your openion.I am ready to condemn any ill-practices in my relegion .So I wanted to know whether you have the same way of look or not .As you hesitate to say 'YES' ,I have decided not to argue with you seriously (Sorry!) .
  
  But I need to tell you only one think .
  
  >>I was talking quite decently till aggravated by Madurai Veeran. I am also a human being and to teach a lesson to barking dog, I have to remove my chappal and hit on his face. <<
  
  Please consider I am also a human being .MV is a born Hindu ,you are also a Hindu .When MV attack hinduism ,You immediately decided He is a christian fanatic and attack Christianity .
  
  OK.No points to argue .Anyway thanks for your first step.
  
  
  

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