Topic started by Nadopasaka on Mon Feb 21 21:10:55 .
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Thyagaraja is unique among all vaggeyakaras. What is the source of this uniqueness ?

Indeed, all music and musical awareness must cease in the condition of enlightenment he evidenced. There is no raga, alapana, kriti etc. at this point. Is it possible that the great Saint and vaggeyakara would have been equally satisfied with the simple monotonal chant of Rama Rama Rama Rama Rama.., i.e. the cult of Naama Siddhaanta.

This thread is to try to discuss his universal appeal and other aspects. e.g. Is he good for Carnatic music or spirituality ? What are his less known ( even endangered ! ) krities ? Can one such as this occur again ?

Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Nadopasaka (@ akppp35.buffnet.net) on: Mon Apr 17 05:38:40 EDT 2000
  
  Thanks, S.
  
  Kshyam, Your point regarding GNB maximizing the use of his warp-speed vocal equipment with appropriately chosen krities is well taken. I remember getting quite tired of one of his alaapanas as well maybe Vasudevayani. On the other hand, for example the Begadas varnam InthaChala and GKB's Chidambaram shimmer in the vapour trails of his turbojets. Apart from the Subbaraya Shastri kriti I do have difficulty identifying many slower tempo renditions by him. Now that I think of it , MLV, TSK and TVR had a similar quality, frenetic and frantic if you are ill disposed, urgent and breathless if you are positively inclined. I will ask TVR to try his hand at a Kshetragna composition next time I see him.
  
  A follow-up on the use of "Shri Tyagaraja" in the mudra. There is a Tyg. kriti 'IdiNeeku Meragaadura Shri Rama' in Punnagavarali which has the use of both the words "ShriRama" and "ShriTyagaraja sannuta" in the last charanam. O Rama and Shri Tyagaraja also appear in the last charanam of a Kalyani kriti 'RamaRamaRamaNapai'.
  
  
• From: K. Shyam (@ net231-247.its.yale.edu) on: Mon Apr 17 07:23:39 EDT 2000
  
  GNB did indeed sing Palinchu Kamakshi without the chitta swaras. However, he was more the exception than the rule. Thanks S. for the interesting tidbit. I must add though that that the swara sahitya has been tastefully done, whoever did it.
  
  In one of his speeches, SSI denied having authored any of the krities attributed to Swati Thirunal. He did, however, admit to "polishing" some of ST's compositions. In my opinion, if it had to be done by somebody, very few people were better qualified than he.
  
  
• From: Nadopasaka (@ aeppp8.buffnet.net) on: Mon May 22 12:01:58 EDT 2000
  
  The Pancharatna Varali and the MD Varali SeshachalaNayaka share the following words
  
  mala-alankrita and bhushaa-alankrita;
  Purandara-nagaja and purandara- adi dikpalaka;
  jataayu-moksha-Phala-da and visesha-Phala-pradaa-yaka.
  
  The Tyg kriti also refers to Chidananda, synonymous with MD's srividya guru.
  
  
• From: Nadopasaka (@ afppp38.buffnet.net) on: Fri May 26 11:27:48 EDT 2000
  
  The phrase VarasikhiVahana Varijalochana a Tyg. kriti in Supradeepam also shares this exact same phrase with the MD Yamunakalyani Paramashivaatmajam !
  
  In addition both krities use the construct TarakaShura-padma in the Tyg and ShuraTaraka in the MD kriti !!
  
  
• From: Nadopasaka (@ adppp11.buffnet.net) on: Wed May 31 11:31:54 EDT 2000
  
  Lakshman had clarified earlier that 'Vinayaka NinuVina' is a Hamsadhwani kriti of ERamakrishnaBhagavatar. This kriti uses also the appellation for Vinayaka as Anaatharakshaka beginning the anupallavi.
  
  MD's Vegavahini 'Vinayaka Vighnanashaka' also uses Anaatharakshaka to start the Anupallavi.
  
  The Tyagaraja Madhyamavati ALSO uses 'Vinayakuni Valenu' with Anaatharakshika beginning the anupallavi. But the kriti is directed to Kaamaakshi and the pun on Anaatharakshaka may be intended for the 'immaculate conception' or fatherless status of Ganapati.
  
  
• From: Nadopasaka (@ aeppp38.buffnet.net) on: Sun Jun 11 17:58:23 EDT 2000
  
  The Tyg Madhyamavati Deva SriTapastirtha ( one of the Lalgudi PR krities :-)) ) has as the first charanam Pasha Hasta Ganesha Harana ? Is Ganesha Harana symbolic of Shivas abduction of and subsequent lopping off the primordial Ganesha head ?
  
  
• From: Nadopasaka (@ akppp21.buffnet.net) on: Tue Jun 13 08:05:45 EDT 2000
  
  It is not clear if Ganesha-harana is used or it is Ganesha-sharana (which may be more common), Gane-sharana ? Tyg. krities do show considerable irony and even slesha.
  
  
• From: Nadopasaka (@ aappp7.buffnet.net) on: Wed Jul 5 15:50:59 EDT 2000
  
  The Tyg Kanugontini and MD's MamavaPattabhi share the usage 'bharata-lakshmana-shatrughana'. This is understandable in a Rama kriti. However, both krities also end up referring to Sugriva as 'Sugriva Pramukha'.
  
  Is this also a common appearance in the Ramayana or elsewhere ? If not, it may show some common ground between the two. MD has few Rama based kritis compared to Tyg.
  
  
• From: gopal (@ nandi2.lsa.berkeley.edu) on: Wed Jul 5 22:05:49 EDT 2000
  
  This is to the original statement of Nado:
  Try reading T's krithis without the ragaa and metering. They are as poetic, rich in Bhava as you would find with Surdaas and Azhwaars. So the universal appeal comes to his songs for its flexibility to adapt to a musical meter (to put it another way, the rigidity with which they have been set to the grammer of notes). some of the
  works of those mentioned above couldnot be done to, in this way.
  There are more to add on the thyagaraja the saint and thyagaraja the aspirant, but only on your responses
  to this.
  
  
• From: Nadopasaka (@ aeppp21.buffnet.net) on: Sat Jul 29 23:38:25
  
  MD obviously has several SamashtiCharana krities, i.e. Pallavi, no anupallavi and one charana. Removing the anuPallavi is also favored by Tyagaraja, who then goes on to several Charanas, e.g. ennaluNitrova in Kapi with 15-16 charanas, RaamaNinuVina - sBharanam etc. Is there any Tyagaraja samashtiCharana kriti ? This expanded treatment of the Sadguru in multiple verses suggests an emphasis perhaps not entirely to do with music.
  
  It appears that of all his krities, SyamaSastri's Chintamani kriti may have no anu-pallavi. It does have at least 3 charanas. This needs to be clarified.
  
  
• From: K. Shyam (@ net231-231.its.yale.edu) on: Sun Jul 30 12:13:23 EDT 2000
  
  Nadopasaka: At least according to one source (T.K. Govinda Rao)you are right about SS's Devi Brova (Chintamani). It has no anupallavi and 3 charanas.
  
  
• From: Lakshman (@ ppp7925.on.bellglobal.com) on: Sun Jul 30 14:03:06 EDT 2000
  
  Nado & K.Shyam:
  I checked in Mrs. Vidya Shankar's books of Shyama Shastri's kritis and though she has not used the words pallavi, anupallvi, and charanam devi brova has two lines one below the other. Here is the format.
  dEvi brOva samayamidE ativEgamE vacci
  
  nA vEtalu dIrci karuninchavE shankari kAmAkshi
  
  This is follwed by three 4 line charnas.
  
  
• From: narayanan (@ dyn9-ras50.screaming.net) on: Sun Jul 30 14:19:46 EDT 2000
  
  Lakshman:
  The line "nA vEtalu dIrci karuninchavE shankari kAmAkshi" is normally sung as a part of the pallavi.
  
  
• From: K. Shyam (@ net231-231.its.yale.edu) on: Sun Jul 30 15:05:13 EDT 2000
  
  Nadopasaka/Lakshman/Narayanan: I found the same in Smt. Vidya Shankar's book. The lines are not clearly labeled pallavi, anupallavi, etc. The additional space between lines 1 and 2 makes it really confusing. I agree with Narayanan that "nA vEtalu, etc." is an integral part of the pallavi. (That is how both MSS and KVN have sung it.) In TKG's book, he goes straight from pallavi to charanam 1. I also remember reading in a book (Prof. Sambamoorthy?) recently that this kriti does not have an anupallavi. In addition, the second ("Lokhajanani") and third (Syamakrishnuni") stanzas are usually sung identically which, I suspect, wouldn't be the case if they were anupallavi and charanam.
  
  
• From: Nadopasaka (@ akppp17.buffnet.net) on: Sun Jul 30 17:12:40 EDT 2000
  
  IF ( and this is a big If ) there is an anu-pallavi it seems to me to be most likely to start with 'ati vEgamE'.
  
  Three word pallavis are used by SS, e.g. purahara jaye palaya maam in Gaulipantu,also Arabhi. Even a two word one in Kalyani.
  
  
• From: K. Shyam (@ net245-160.its.yale.edu) on: Mon Jul 31 07:33:20 EDT 2000
  
  Prof. Sambamurthy's "Great Composers Book I" has some interesting history on "Devi Brova". This kriti was composed by SS when he was in a somewhat perturbed state of mind caused by a contest he had agreed to participate in to save the musical reputation of Tanjore. The challenger in this case was the notorious Kesavayya who had vanquished many a musician on his way to Tanjore. Although Kesavayya was no match for our hero in the ensuing contest, this event caused considerable stress in the mind of SS who was a humble soul. So he shut himself up in the temple the previous evening and sang Devi Brova extempore. The fact that the kriti has no anupallavi but 3 charanas is indicative of his agitated state of mind (according to Prof. S.). This is the only kriti of this kind SS seems to have composed.
  
  
• From: Lakshman (@ hse-kit-ppp38756.sympatico.ca) on: Mon Jul 31 08:36:56 EDT 2000
  
  Nado & K Shyam:
  The other compositions that do not carry anupallavis are his three svarajatis in Bhairavi, Yadukulakambhoji and Todi.
  
  
• From: K. Shyam (@ net162-199.med.yale.edu) on: Mon Jul 31 10:06:50 EDT 2000
  
  Lakshman: Your point is well-taken but "swarajathi" is an entirely different kind of composition.
  
  
• From: Nadopasaka (@ adppp12.buffnet.net) on: Mon Jul 31 10:24:14 EDT 2000
  
  There are also a 3-4 gitams with little structure.
  
  A part of the raga name 'Chintaa' may reflect the 'worried' state of SS' mind. ( it means other things as well ) but this raaga may have begun ( and ended ) with SyamaSastri. cf. new raagas of Tyagaraja e.g. Jaganmohini ? etc.
  
  It is mighty surprising that SS felt compelled to take up cudgels for Tiruvarur, when both MD and Tyagaraja had legendary status.
  
  
• From: Vish (@ palwebproxy1.core.hp.com) on: Mon Jul 31 20:46:29 EDT 2000
  
  > It is mighty surprising that SS felt compelled
  > to take up cudgels for Tiruvarur, when both
  > MD and Tyagaraja had legendary status.
  
  Perhaps because his guru (Pachimiriam Adiappiah, who supposedly thought SS was God's gift to music) was associated with the court?
  
  Vish
  
  
• From: Nadopasaka (@ afppp45.buffnet.net) on: Mon Jul 31 23:02:01 EDT 2000
  
  Of the trinity SS appears to be the most 'worldly', sometimes ( as KShyam pointed out elsewhere ) even grovelling in his addresses. He might be therefore prone to such compulsions, based on some loyalties. Perhaps the gladiatorial nature of such a contest may have caused his worry. But historically it is evidence of at least one of the trinity indulging in a contest. Of course Sambamurty may also have included some embellishment. For someone with no krities in the melas like MMGowla, Shanmukapriya, Pantuvarali, Chakravaka, HariKamboji, Kharaharapriya, and the janyas e.g. Bilahari, Vasanta, Gaula, Kedaram, DevaGandhari, Kanada, Hindola, Khamas or even Sahana ! the creation of a new (and still obscure) raga must be heralded with some fanfare. Subbaraya Sastri seems also to have limited his range.
  
  
• From: K. Shyam (@ net245-254.its.yale.edu) on: Tue Aug 1 08:02:49 EDT 2000
  
  Nadopasaka: SS did "disdain royal patronage" as Sambamurthy has pointed out. He was obviously a reluctant participant in this contest. There was probably some arm-twisting before he agreed to participate. His eventual confidence seems to have come from some kind of divine assurance from Devi that he would win the next day.
  
  Chintamani, according to S., is a gem "when devoutly thought of has the capacity to give what one desires."
  
  
• From: Nadopasaka (@ akppp57.buffnet.net) on: Sat Aug 26 07:47:47
  
  More Naraadhama citations. In the Anathudanu kriti in Jingla Tyagaraja asserst he is not a Naraadhama as well in the Siddhasena, the usage kali-maanavaadhamula appears. This repeated appearance ( others cited on the MD thread ) might be due to Tyg.s aggravated and self-imposed poverty, compared to the SS or MD.
  
  
• From: Rajani (@ 202.151.212.3) on: Wed Aug 30 06:46:01 EDT 2000
  
  The "duDukugala" also refers to "narAdhamulanu kOri"
  
  
• From: Nadopasaka (@ abppp6.buffnet.net) on: Thu Sep 14 14:34:40
  
  Both the Sreeranjani 'Brochevaevare' and Vasantabhairavi 'Needayarada' seem to have one word pallavis and then a rather unique pattern.
  
  What are the krities of Tyg. which have chitta swaras ? Not sure about the pancharatnas.
  
  
• From: Shyam (@ chaikoff1.berkeley.edu) on: Fri Sep 15 20:17:52 EDT 2000
  
  Does Sobhillu have chittaswaras by him?
  
  

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