When will Israel realise?
Topic started by Vimal Chandaria (@ cache59.156ce.scvmaxonline.com.sg) on Wed Apr 10 06:24:49 .
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
The recent events in Middle East has arose some questions for which I am still looking for some answers.
Firstly, when will Israel realise that the "State of Israel" is a charity of United Nations. Without the U.N there would have been no Israel. Now Israel has consistently followed their predecessors and have always ignored the U.N which is the very reason for its creation.
Secondly, all non-Jews have condemned the holocaust. The recent turn of events begs the question, "Was Hitler right? "
Thirdly, are we still seeing the same Jews who executed Jesus ? Are the Jews still maintaining the same state of mind ?
The recent events only proof the above as true.
- Old responses
- From: Nambi (@ cache-hay-hsi.cableinet.co.uk)
on: Thu Apr 18 18:59:00
I think that you are taking advantage
of this forum by giving too detailed info.
Other than history there are some hidden facts
inside this problem. One is Jewish people are
very rich and they have American arm support.
On the other side poor Palestines who are
living with the aid from the Arab nations.
Jewish people even bring labourers from countries
like Thailand and they do not even trust to
recruit Palestine people. They construct
settlements in the Palestine areas for no body,
simply to establish that it is their land for
historic reasons. The harrassments at the
check points on Palestines are very bad.
The city of Jenine is totally destroyed and
it is like a grave yard now.
Rabin & Arafat paved the way for peace. But
unfortunately he was killed by the Jewish
hard liners and buried the peace with him.
Now whatever Israelis do to crush Palestines
will not do anything to establish their
home land and in fact people are looking for their
oppurtunities to seize. Jewish people do have
a long known history and this war against
Palestines is a black mark against them and
it can never be removed.
- From: cat (@ palo20.pacific.net.sg)
on: Sun Apr 28 08:54:20
Nobody has forgotten Ariel Sharon's culpability in the massacre at Sabra and Shatila, but it seems we have forgotten the many hijackings and other acts of terror planned and executed by Yasser Arafat (including the murder of the US Ambassador to Sudan). Our standards for justice are hypocritically one-sided. We have wildly inflated the number of casualties at Sabra and Shatila. There were roughly 700 Palestinians killed in the massacre, the overwhelming majority of them men. It was indeed tragic, and Sharon bears partial responsibility: though no Israelis participated, they turned a blind eye to the Phalangist atrocities. I can freely admit that Sharon has blood on his hands, but you hypocritically refuse to hold Arafat responsible for his crimes.
I too am a supporter of an independent Palestinian state. I too support the rights of all people to self-determination. But why can't the Kashmiris, for example, operate within the confines of Indian Democracy? Why can't they elect a state government that reflects their outlook and lobbies for their interests in New Dehli? Why must they engage in violence? Why must they be granted outright independence? Why is the Muslim allowed to govern the non-Muslim, but will not allow the non-Muslim to govern him?The people of the Southern Sudan have been waging a tragic struggle for self-determination for 20 years now. Unlike the people of Kashmir, they have been brutalized in the worst way: over 2 million killed...the majority of them starved in man-made famine. They have suffered the horrific indignities of becoming ensnaired in a revival of the Muslim slave-trade (in which their women have been raped en mass as standard operating proceedure), and had their villages, live-stock, schools, hospitals and food-distribution centers destroyed in both ground and air attacks. But you've never said a word about the Southern Sudanese . Could it possibly be because they are non-Muslims and therefore their plight doesn't concern you in the least?
The Christian people of East Timor were occupied for 23 years by Indonesia. THey suffered 100,000 killed in that time. Palestinians have suffered no more than 5000 killed since their own occupation began in 67. Why is it, that the Timorese never resorted to suicide bombings, even though their occupation was 20 times as bloody as the Palestinians? The answer is simple: their culture does not sanctify the murder of innocents. The children of Palestine who are blowing themselves up and purposefully killing non-combatants are not doing so out of desperation: there are children in Africa living in much worse squalor. It is not hopelessness and desperation that drives them to do what they do. Rather, it is a culture of hatred...created and fostered by their parents, teachers and leaders...that tells them they will be honored by their entire society, that they will have their image posted on the walls of their cities, that they they will become saints qualified for eternal paradise...if they will commit mass murder. The leaders are thus allowed to pursue terrorism to achieve political objectives...and the parents can receive a bountiful stipend from Islamic charities. You justify the murder of innocents just as enthusiastically as any Muslim religious fanatic. By your logic, the world is destined to descend into a culture of mayhem, where anyone who perceives themselves as oppressed will be justified in the mass murder of innocent men, women and children. some things are morally wrong and no amount of equivocation and rationalization can make them right.
If Ariel Sharon was culpable in the massacre at Shatila and Sabra, I agree he should be held to account. In the same spirit, shouldn't Arafat be held accountable for his hijackings and the murder of the US Ambassador to Khartoum?
- From: cat (@ palo2.pacific.net.sg)
on: Sat May 4 01:33:42
The problem is that Quran advocates violence and violence feeds more violence. The Palestinians are reaping what they wrought. Their human bombers kept blasting innocent people in, pizzerias, markets, restaurants, busses and they celebrated calling those terrorists “martyrs”. You and all other Muslims justified these barbaric acts as “acts of desperation of a victimized people”. Now the Palestinians who jubilantly cheered the death of the Jews are dying by hundreds and now they portray themselves as victims. Why not celebrate now? Don't you believe in martyrdom anymore? Or is it that martyrdom is not valid until you kill innocent people?
The Muslims in India burned a train full of Hindus. They did it with utter malice motivated by their religious hate. They did not calculate or care about the consequence. The consequence was that Hindus retaliated and murdered innocent Muslims including children and women ten times more.
Why Muslims do not see evil in all the atrocities perpetrated by their fellow religionists and cry foul only when their victims retaliate?
But we Muslims are primarily victims of our own violent mindset. Muslims are incapable of living peacefully with other people. The recent Sunny/Shiite massacres in Pakistan are proof that as long as people adhere to Islam, peace will be only a chimera.
As long as you show the Muslim victims to justify more acts of violence against the non-Muslims, this status quo will not change. More people will die from both sides and more victims will be added to the statistics.
Time has come to search for a solution, to find where we went wrong, to look for the cause of these wars. The cause of all these wars is in the hatred that Muslims harbor against each other. As long as Muslims erect tall walls of distrust around themselves and sort humanity into Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus, Kafirs, Believers, unbelievers, Blacks, Whites, etc, the distrust will linger and these wars will not end. Why don’t we see each other as humans first and then anything else? We have fought wars with more wars; combated hate with more hate, confronted violence with more violence and this is the result.
But peace will not come by “subduing” our enemies and forcing them to surrender, believe in our deity or pay Jizya to us as is prescribed in Quran 9:29. Peace will come only when we abandon doctrines that promote hate. Peace will come only when we do not call others najis (impure), Kafir (disbeliever) or enemy of God. Peace is the fruit of equality and social justice. A religion that does not recognize the rights of others to practice their own faiths and worship their own gods is a religion that promotes injustice. We will not experience peace with our lips eulogizing it while our hearts are filled with hate.
Why Muslims all over the world can see only the rights of the Muslims when they are violated and are deafeningly silent when their Muslim brothers violate the rights of others? Why people from Bangladesh or Iran care only about Palestinian victims and not the victims of Palestinians whose body parts are blown to the sky with bombs? Why this pack mentality? Why can’t we see each other as humans first and condemn the evil wherever it comes?
You speak of the Palestinian rights to defend their land. But, what about the rights of the Jews!? Jews are hated in all Islamic countries, as ordained in Quran and their rights are systematically abused. Shouldn’t they have a land to call their own? Should they continue to live, (or rather die) seeking the mercy of brutal doctrines such as Nazism and Islam? Why don’t you speak of the rights of the Jews? Or is it that they have no rights because they are zimmis and hated by your Allah?
Why when Baha’is are persecuted no Muslim complains? Why they can be jailed, tortured to recant, their properties confiscated and executed while Muslims say nothing? Why Hindus can be murdered and wiped out from Pakistan and Bangladesh and no Islamic apologist would condemn these barbarities? Why is it that you only write to justify the crimes of Muslims and never protest?
This world is in turmoil. It is anguishing in pain. We are all victims of our false beliefs. Let us abandon those beliefs that make us hate each other. We Muslims are the sinners because we have embraced a doctrine of hate. All religions are false but no other religion cultivates this much hate in its followers as Islam does. All religions promote disunity but none is as explicit in fomenting hate as Islam. Let us empty our minds of these spurious beliefs. Let us cleans our hearts of these hatemongering doctrines. Let us embrace each other as brothers and sisters in humanity. Let us be Human first
- From: e (@ aca37d1f.ipt.aol.com)
on: Sat May 4 21:07:46
ur right, cat.
the palestinians find nothing wrong with killing israelis but when one of their own is killed, they think its "evil".
and theres nothing or nobody to stop these suicide bombers.
it was in the news that some saudis were conducting a telethon to raise money so that they can give it to the families of these bombers. and they showed videos of these robe-wearing weirdos yelling and screaming of every pledge they get. and they ended up raising millions of dollars in just one day..the saudi foreign minister when he came to the US last week and appeared in a tv show was asked about this telethon and he was explaining that this was a "humanitarian" aid to the families.!! who has lost their way of supporting themselves financially and that he was "shocked" to hear this being called terrorist money
but the reality is that if american government was to give aid to an american family whose family member killed a number of saudis, the saudi gov. would use call the us gov. terrorist supporters.
plus, saddam hussein is giving $25,000 to every family whose family member was a suicidde bomber. to an average palestinian who earns $2-3 a day, this is a fortune.
the palestinians called what happened in jenin, a massacre! these palestinains themselves say that they wanna fight to their death, and that they're now getting what they wanted, what are they crying for agian?
- From: a (@ )
on: Fri Jun 25 19:37:06
to cat and e
dear fellas! ur analysis is totally unrealistic and biased. lack of time hinders me to talk about all issues but atleast make one correction
1. cat talked about massacre of hindus and non-muslims in pakistan.... the worst of lies of the century. can u point a Single incidence of non-muslim massacre ever reported by any media including FREE western media, in pakistan since its independence in 1947.on the contrary just see across our borders! plz, make a yahoo search with "gujrat, hindu muslim riots, 2001" and u'll see what non muslims do when they come in majority aginst us. in pakistan, one can quote about sectarain killings (even ,there r never any mobs killing other sect rather sabotage activities by undercover ppl funded by external elements) but non muslims r never ever targetted.
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