Topic started by Traveller (@ globalb3.citicorp.com) on Tue Jul 31 15:01:11 .
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

The Classical Treatises on Military are


1. Art Of War By Suntzu.

2. Book of 5 Rings.

3. The Prince By Machiavelli.

These treatises are used by the American Business Strategists for New Projects.

Please tell me whether there are any more
Classics.
Bye,
Traveler

Responses:

• From: Venki (@ news.ti.com) on: Tue Jul 31 16:20:16
  
  Arthashastra by Chanakya aka Kautilya may also qualify as a treatise on Rajathanthiram.
  
  
• From: kik (@ ts3-155.silcon.com) on: Thu Aug 2 22:11:37
  
  36 chinese strategies or something similar.
  Try the unorthodox warrior by thomas cleary? this is a translation of more military strategy from japan/china. The campaigns of Napoleon by David Chandler.
  
  Applications to business are merely gimmicks to make more $.
  
  
• From: Venki (@ news.ti.com) on: Tue Aug 14 11:31:50
  
  Traveller,
  
  Since you listed The Prince by Machiavelli as book about warfare, I presume your connotation is a little wider encompassing statecraft rather than just warfare.
  
  So I will include other works like,
  
  -The Republic by Plato
  
  http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0140440488/qid=997800086/sr=2-2/103-1975400-8656610
  
  -The Analects of Confucius in parts of which he deals with the role of the state and the duty of the Kings also.
  
  http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/103-1975400-8656610
  
  Of course we have any number of works in India in which the role of a good King and state are mentioned, icluding the Thirukural.
  
  
• From: Venki (@ news.ti.com) on: Tue Aug 14 11:37:21
  
  On War by Carl Von Clausewitz is of course the most famous western classic.
  
  In English:
  ----------
  http://www.clausewitz.com/CWZHOME/On_War/ONWARTOC.html
  
  In the Original German:
  ----------------------
  http://www.clausewitz.com/CWZHOME/VomKriege/VKTOC.htm
  
  
• From: Venki (@ news.ti.com) on: Tue Aug 14 11:47:48
  
  Athenian writer Thucydides: The Peloponnesian War (c.400 B.C.) is the only other 'western' classic on war and strategy.
  
  http://classics.mit.edu/Thucydides/pelopwar.html
  
  But von Clausewitz is considered the strategist beyond compare in the west.
  
  Here is 'AN INSTRUCTOR'S GUIDE TO TEACHING CLAUSEWITZ' from the National War College in the US.
  
  http://www.clausewitz.com/CWZHOME/KassNWC/KassNotes3.html
  
  
• From: Venki (@ news.ti.com) on: Tue Aug 14 15:13:38
  
  Here are some links on the Arthashastra.
  
  
  Kautilya's Arthashastra (1915 Shamasastry translation)
  
  http://www.mssc.edu/projectsouthasia/history/primarydocs/Arthashastra/
  
  Indian History Sourcebook:
  Kautilya:
  from The Arthashastra, c. 250 BCE
  
  http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/india/kautilya1.html
  
  Kautilya : The Arthashastra /edited by L.N. Rangarajan
  
  http://www.vedamsbooks.com/no19625.htm
  
  The Art of Governance
  An Extract from Kautilya's Arthashastra
  Translated by R.Shamasastry
  
  http://www.indiaworld.co.in/subscribe/rec/stories/july21-99exarth.html
  
  
• From: Mr.Altor (@ ) on: Fri Feb 1 11:05:58
  
  Gents pls do not limit this to these cultures only there is a queen unzinga of angola that defeated the portuguese using brilliant tactics..also an amerindian named uraca in panama made mince meat of the spaniards and other troops.also where is mao and Giap of vietnam..Limitations and ethnocentric views can be very costly in todays world..ask the soldiers who experienced the sting of these individuals..How about the Zulu king..Nuff said..Tis a good site pls expand in an inclusive way for the benefit of the serious intelligent researcher..The great ones in this area do not come out of war colleges,need proof?
  
  
• From: bj (@ 61.11.72.187) on: Wed Feb 6 00:56:44
  
  some more "treatises"
  
  1) The art of war - machiavelli
  available in project gutenburg
  
  2)Manual of the Urban Guerilla - Carlos Marighella
  
  3)People's War People's Army - Nguyen Vo Giap
  
  
• From: lrdaltor (@ 209.2.60.80) on: Thu Feb 7 14:16:09
  
  bj,you are alive..
  
  
• From: bj (@ 203.90.94.162) on: Thu Feb 7 16:45:47
  
  lrdaltor,
  do i know u?
  
  
• From: Minam Jafri (@ ) on: Mon Apr 29 13:07:59
  
  Indian History mentions about very few Sea wars.
  I am interested to know the views of Indian Thinkers and Strategists about the Sea Wars.
  
  
• From: amit (@ leased-200-22-210.bng.vsnl.net.in) on: Mon Dec 23 03:46:13
  
  Can anyone give me all the sites where i can get these books FREELY DOWNLODABLE.....!!!!
  
  Book of 5 Rings.
  
  The Prince By Machiavelli.
  
  
• From: Venki (@ 12-238-133-106.client.attbi.com) on: Mon Dec 23 23:17:54
  
  Amit,
  
  Book of 5 Rings (Go Rin No Sho)by Miyamoto Musashi
  http://www.samurai.com/5rings/
  
  Here are a few links for Machiavelli's 'The Prince'.
  http://www.constitution.org/mac/prince00.htm
  http://www.orst.edu/instruct/phl302/texts/prince/prince_contents.html
  http://www.pagebypagebooks.com/Nicolo_Machiavelli/The_Prince/
  
  
• From: JayBee (@ 203.121.0.13) on: Tue Dec 24 04:20:46
  
  'The Leadership Qualities of Attila Hun' is a book that is recommended reading for trainees in government administrative services in the National Administrative Services Institute of Malaysia.
  
  
• From: Venki (@ 12-238-133-106.client.attbi.com) on: Wed Dec 25 02:14:22
  
  'The Leadership Qualities of Atilla Hun' though interesting is not historical.
  
  "In the runaway bestseller Leadership Secrets Of Attila The Hun, author Wess Roberts draws from the imaginary thoughts of one of history's most effective and least beloved leaders, Attila the Hun, to discover leadership principles you can apply to your own situation."
  
  From: http://www.leadershipnow.com/leadershop/9106-9.html
  
  
• From: amit (@ leased-200-22-210.bng.vsnl.net.in) on: Thu Dec 26 01:02:49
  
  Hi Venki,
  Thanx 4 quick response.
  And gr8 links.
  1 more help.
  
  Iz there ne site where I can read Business applications of these gr8 books on war or strategies.
  
  
• From: amit (@ leased-200-22-210.bng.vsnl.net.in) on: Wed Jan 1 02:17:12
  
  Happy new year to all.
  Still waiting response to my previous mail.
  (waited for 1 FULL year !!!!!!!)
  
  
• From: Kaushik (@ ) on: Wed Sep 24 15:24:39
  
  This forum was a lot help!!
  i dont know if i will be back here but u guys r doing a great job
  
  
• From: Ricky (@ 203.13.126.19) on: Sat Sep 27 06:16:39 EDT 2003
  
  Has anyone read "48 laws of power" I think it's by Robert Greene. I found that to be a great read on strategies.
  
  I bought the book "The art of war" on recommnendation but it was so hard to follow. I was all in point forms and had no flow.
  
  till laler
  Ricky
  
  
• From: Manousos Kambouris (@ ) on: Wed Dec 3 05:44:14
  
  The BEST military treatise and earliest western, is On Cavalry Commander (Ipparhikos) by Xenophon. It is NOT a history with strategisist's input, as Thucidydes' work and it goes far beyond caVAlry matters, though viwed by thwe aspect of the Cavalry commander. Circa 360 BC. A "novelish"-fictious treatise is Kyropedia, of the same author
  
  
• From: jaybee (@ 210.186.103.49) on: Fri Dec 5 00:33:59 EST 2003
  
  There was another Chinese general called 'Sun Pin'.
  
  He was an ancestor of Sun Tzu.
  
  One of his tactics was applied by Mao Tse Tung during one of his campaigns.
  
  
• From: jaybee (@ 210.186.103.49) on: Fri Dec 5 00:45:39 EST 2003
  
  There is another Chinese book called, 'Secret Art of War - The 36 Strategems'.
  
  This was compiled about 400 years ago by an unknown author. During the end part of the Ming period.
  
  But it was from older works.
  
  That work must have been around at least 1500 years ago.
  
  It was published in 1941 by the Xinghua Printing House in Chengdu, Sichuan.
  
  The uniqueness about the Secret War lies in the fact that emphasise a lot on deception as an important military art.
  
  It deals more with deception, sabotage, subterfuge, hidden tactics, etc.
  
  If you any of you is interested, let me know.
  
  I will put up a summarised review about that book.
  
  Otherwise I can do something else more useful.
  
  
• From: jaybee (@ 210.186.103.105) on: Fri Dec 5 23:17:09 EST 2003
  
  It make worthwhile effort to read various campaigns which have been carried out in the course of history.
  
  Alexander's personal historian Arrian has recorded many of the campains.
  
  The Battle of Hydaspes is graphically described.
  
  How with a mere meagre force of 6000, he was able to tilt the balance and beat Porus's army of 30000 together with 200 war elephants.
  
  Then there is the Battle of Tarain which has been described by the dairiyist if Mohammed of Ghaur.
  
  We also have details about the Afgan-Maratha War and the Battle of Talikota.
  
  They make very absorbing reading.
  
  
• From: jaybee (@ 210.186.103.105) on: Fri Dec 5 23:19:13 EST 2003
  
  Read as -
  'diariyist of Mohammed of Ghaur'.
  
  
• From: M Balakrishnan (@ pool-141-153-237-168.mad.east.verizon.net) on: Sun Dec 7 17:49:23 EST 2003
  
  "Machiavelli and Management" is a book by 'Anthony Jay', which purports to describe how a corporate management is in reality an exercise of Machiavellian royal/military strategies and tactics/intrigues, with no holds barred, no honesty in the ultimate sense, where conquest of rivals and enemies in the pursuit of power (getting to the top thru maneuvers)admits of only ends as of sense, and not the morality or ethics of the methods employed for attaining the objecives. Have you exec guys read that one? I did, buying it for just Rs.15 a decade ago while in India. In war, ends justify means, though post facto explanations are contrived by the brainy advisers to show that "fair" methods were only adopted. Any activity on the mundane plane, in the final analysis,can be argued as just disguised means - "counterfuges and camouflages" -of improving one's own self interests, not just the military activity!
  
  
• From: JayBee (@ 210.186.103.45) on: Sun Dec 7 22:57:45 EST 2003
  
  It is actually 'Management and Machiavelli' -
  'An inquiry into the Politics of Corporate Life'.
  Authour is Anthony Jay. He was in fact a retired executive producer for the BBC.
  Later on, he went free-lance with his own consultant firm.
  
  It is advisable to get the original 'Prince' and the other book by Machiavelli, before reading this one.
  
  
• From: Karuvayan (@ cs2417546-4.austin.rr.com) on: Tue Mar 9 07:16:49
  
  Folks, there is a new translation of Chanakya's Arthasastra by Prof L N Rangarajan - currently at Lancaster University, UK and served as India's Ambassador to Norway and other countries. It is a superb translation.
  
  It is published by Penguin India. http://www.penguinindia.com - I guess it comes to about $10 including postage.
  
  Here are some excerpts:
  
  http://us.rediff.com/news/2003/jun/20rajeev.htm
  
  
• From: sujoy_personal@yahoo.co.in (@ ) on: Thu Dec 23 12:04:23
  
  dear friends where can I find the details of the Battle of Tarain which has been described by the dairiyist of Mohammed of Ghaur. Please give me a mail
  
  sujoy_personal@yahoo.co.in
  
  

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