Topic started by suhas (@ 203.197.54.120) on Sun Aug 20 12:32:06 .
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In an Article expaining RTP Sanjay Subramanium writes


Finally if we were to look at the pallavi singing practices of some of the great masters, we can find that they did not indulge in too many mathematical exercises. For instance GNB's forte was the raga alapana. He normally breezed through the tanam and pallavi segments, without even rendering the anuloma and pratiloma.


Can someone explain here what is the meaning of the term Anuloma and pratiloma.Are they related to swara Singing?

Bye

Responses:

• From: K. Shyam (@ net245-252.its.yale.edu) on: Sun Aug 20 19:07:15 EDT 2000
  
  I found the following definitions of anuloma and pratiloma in Prof. P. Sambamurthy's South Indian Music Book IV.
  
  "Anuloma consists in keeping the tala constant and singing the pallavi at double and quadruple speeds; as a consequence, the pallavi music will be heard twice and four times, respectively, within the space of the original period of duration."
  
  "Pratiloma consists in keeping the speed of singing constant but reckoning the tala with the hand at double and quadruple speeds; as a consequence, the tala will be reckoned twice and four times, respectively, within the space of the original period of duration."
  
  Prof. S. makes the interesting point that only anuloma is possible in instrumental music (for obvious reasons!).
  
  Pallavi is perhaps the most "egotistical" part of a cutchery. Since pallavi, by definition, consists of padam (pa) or words, layam (la) and vinyaasam (vi) or variation, some mathematical exercises are perhaps unavoidable; it is the nature of the beast. One can, I suppose, argue over the relative proportion of each of the necessary components of this highly intellectual exercise. Since the majority of the audience doesn't understand or care for such intricacies, it was certainly sensible on GNB's part not to risk alienating the audience.
  
  
• From: suhas (@ 203.197.75.171) on: Sun Aug 20 23:38:44 EDT 2000
  
  
  Thanks a lot Shyam.It was really informative.
  
  
• From: narayanan (@ 194.193.249.33) on: Mon Aug 21 05:07:14 EDT 2000
  
  K Shyam:
  >>Prof. S. makes the interesting point that only anuloma is possible in instrumental music (for obvious reasons!).<<
  
  A modified version of this would be (if i am not wrong) rendering the anuloma in double speed and in thisra gathi (substitute for quadraple speed).
  DKP/DKJ render anuloma in this manner.
  
  
• From: K. Shyam (@ net231-220.its.yale.edu) on: Mon Aug 21 06:27:44 EDT 2000
  
  Narayanan: Yes. I have seen/heard it done by the duo. Pratiloma may be possible in instrumental music if it is a duet. (One of them plays the instrument while the other reckons the tala with the hand.)
  
  
• From: nick (@ host.sumitomomarine.co.uk) on: Mon Aug 21 08:51:56 EDT 2000
  
  >>>A modified version of this would be (if i am not wrong) rendering the anuloma in double speed and in thisra gathi (substitute for quadraple speed).
  
  First speed, second speed, tisra, third speed rather than substituting tisra for third.?
  
  I suppose any combination of nadais could be rendered given the intelectual and rhythmic ability to make it work. I find this 'gradually-getting-faster' effect very satisfying to hear, but don't watch me trying to put tala, it's beyond me in practice!
  
  
• From: narayanan (@ 194.193.249.33) on: Mon Aug 21 09:14:24 EDT 2000
  
  Nick:
  You really cant call thisra as the "third" speed. It is a totally different format. The tala would be on the first speed but the pallavi rendering would be on a different tempo. They merge at the edupu depending of the tala combinations used (adi tala tisra would go for 3 cycles to join at the eduppu and likewise).
  
  I adopted this to play some varnams. It is quite complex when it comes to doing this on varnams because of the chittai swarams etc.
  
  
• From: suhas (@ 203.197.75.85) on: Mon Aug 21 11:55:44 EDT 2000
  
  
  Can you explain what is Eduppu?Is it the starting point of a Taal?Also is there anyway that I can know where in the Taal cycle the actual phrase starts.?Also I have always been amazed by those who can keep Taalam without use of hands.Since you are an Instrumentalist Can you give me some tip?
  
  Now regarding Varnam
  
  Does MSG play in the TISRA that you mentioned.
  ______
  
  Phew!!That's all for now
  
  
• From: Nadopasaka (@ ahppp24.buffnet.net) on: Mon Aug 21 13:19:21 EDT 2000
  
  The unobtrusive use of Madhyamakaala in MD's krities might reflect the positive aspects of the change of speed inherent in anuloma etc. Does anything like this appear in SyamaSastri's work ? GNB may or may not be the best example of anuloma etc. but another historical example of a warp-speed performer is this 'Shat-kaala' Govinda.
  
  
• From: RG (@ 209-128-83-067.bayarea.net) on: Mon Aug 21 14:09:48 EDT 2000
  
  I am quite confused about this concept... Could somebody please elaborate?
  
  Does Tisra Nadai stand for three aksharams per beat (like tha-ki-ta, tha-ki-ta...)? So does this mean it takes 4 avartanams to sing a chatusra nadai sangathi 3 times in Tisra Nadai?
  
  Isn't there another laya variation where you can sing at a speed as to take 3 avartanams for 2 sangathis? If yes, what is this variation called?
  
  Do they also include Khanda nadai in Pallavi singing?
  
  Thanks in advance for helping me out of this confusion (to say the least).
  
  
• From: nick (@ host.sumitomomarine.co.uk) on: Tue Aug 22 06:49:28 EDT 2000
  
  narayanan...
  No, I'm not saying tisra is third speed, I'm saying playing it between second and third speed, i.e. 4 madra, 6 madra then 8 madra. I accompanied (morsing) my first RTP recently, and this is what happened. (even with rehearsal and my teacher's explanation I found it excruciatingly difficult to follow! One day...)
  
  
• From: nick (@ host.sumitomomarine.co.uk) on: Tue Aug 22 06:53:13 EDT 2000
  
  >>Does Tisra Nadai stand for three aksharams per beat (like tha-ki-ta, tha-ki-ta...)?
  
  Yes, exactly. Of course some songs are written this way and sound like 3/4 or 6/8 to the western ear.
  
  
• From: narayanan (@ dyn223-ras51.screaming.net) on: Tue Aug 22 07:54:41 EDT 2000
  
  RG:
  
  The thisra variation works like this.
  Adi Tala has 8 beats and the thisra pattern is 3 beats. A thisra pattern effectively merges at 3 avardhanams of adi (8x3=24).
  I have not heard the kanda nadai modification. That would be quite complex...but have witnessed Vijay Siva singing a thisra-kanda nada pallavi for adi tala,where the first part of tala (lagu) is in tisra nada and the second part (dritam) in kanda nadai. The second speed rendering was very interesting. Happened to listen to a great "tani" for this pallavi by J Vaidyanathan. (DKJ's son)
  
  
• From: RG (@ 209-128-83-067.bayarea.net) on: Tue Aug 22 20:20:44 EDT 2000
  
  Narayanan, thanks for your inputs.
  So, when you render a chatusra nadai Adi talam pallavi or sangathi in tisra nadai, do you need to repeat it 3 times so as to merge with the Adi talam?
  
  
• From: nick (@ host.sumitomomarine.co.uk) on: Wed Aug 23 09:07:20 EDT 2000
  
  >>Also I have always been amazed by those who can keep Taalam without use of hands
  
  I guess this is something that most of the people around here would take entirely for granted. I am still in awe of being able to keep thalam accurately WITH use of hands throughout korvais, different nadais, shifting eddipus etc.!! A superb sense of both timing and rhythmic structure seem to be a pre-requisite of carnatic music performace.
  It certainly does not come naturally to me, but I hope it will with practice.
  Although some instrumentalists, including percussionists, will keep thalam with their feet, this external show, I suggest, is incidental to their own inner sense of rhythm.
  Alternatively there is the skill of putting thalam and composing, for instance a korvai to it. I am also in awe of this ability to 'program' the hand to do something and then be almost disasociated with it, like watching a metronome.
  
  
• From: Nadopasaka (@ akppp9.buffnet.net) on: Sat Aug 26 08:16:14 EDT 2000
  
  'S' had mentioned this earlier elsewhere. The 'Shri Matrubhutam TRI-shiragri' MD kriti in raaga Kannada which is in Misra Chapu has three different 'speeds?' in the charanas. It may be useful to discuss the aspects of this kriti.
  
  
• From: MAGEN (@ bkj-cache81.jaring.my) on: Sun Sep 10 05:20:38 EDT 2000
  
  i dont know about g1 g2 g3 . g1 means first ga , g2 means second ga. how about the g3 ? pls help ,me all my friend.
  
  
• From: Lakshman (@ hse-kit-ppp38879.sympatico.ca) on: Sun Sep 10 15:12:55 EDT 2000
  
  The karnatak notation is as follows: S R1 R2 R3 G1 G2 G3 M1 M2 D1 D2 D2 N1 N2 N3 S. R2 and G1, R3 and G2 have the same pitch value. So do D2 and N1, N2 and D3. It is a method by which only one letter is used for the melakarta ragas. For example mela #2(Ratnangi) has the scale of S R1 R2 M1 P D1 N2 S. Instead it is written as S R1 G1 M1 P D1 N2 S.
  
  
• From: sree (@ ) on: Mon Mar 3 02:19:40
  
  R1 R2 R3 stand for Suddha, chatusruthi and shatsruthi rishabham as per my knowledge, I have heard of G1, G2 - suddha gandharam and antara gandharam but what does this G3 Stand for?
  
  
• From: ajjuu (@ ) on: Tue Aug 17 08:31:53
  
  i sing not bad but i always miss the timing , while singing i miss taala is it possible to correct it without going for any classical music classes , experts please help
  
  

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