Topic started by Nadopasaka on Sat Feb 12 01:40:09 .
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Can anyone shed light on this ?
I have heard MSS singing Ekadantam Upasmahe (begada) by a certain Yogam Narasimhan about 10 years ago, could be wrong though.
Are there any older, historical examples say before 1950?

Responses:

• From: Lakshman (@ ppp7861.on.bellglobal.com) on: Sat Feb 12 07:56:25 EST 2000
  
  Nadopasaka:
  The composer of Ekadantam upasmahe was H.Yoganarasimham, a male, who lived between 1897 and 1971. There have been many female composers, many of them contemporary. Here is a list.
  A.S.Lakshmi Ammal, Ambujam Krishna, Andal, Bobbili Maharani, D.Pattammal, Haimavati Tyagarajan, Indira Natesan, Indira Shrinivasan, Kalyani Varadarajan, Kamala Krishnamurti, Kuttikunju Tangachchi, Lakshmi Rangarajan, Lakshmi Rajangam, Nila Ramamurti, Padmavati Ammal, Radha Hari, Rajam Sharma, Rajam Sitaram, Rajee Narayan, Rama Rajan, Sharada Natarajan, Sundaraja, Vasanta Sharavanan, Vembu Ammal and Vishalakshi Ammal.
  
  
• From: Nadopasaka (@ akppp20.buffnet.net) on: Sat Feb 12 09:11:39 EST 2000
  
  Thanks greatly.
  Of the list can we remove all contemporary ones, say from 1950 onwards i.e. DKPattammal and onwards ? Or get some dates for those on the list ? I suspect only a. Krishna, Andal and Bobbili M. would remain from before 1900. ( am trying to assess this gender inequality )
  
  Thanks and regards
  
  
• From: Lakshman (@ 216.208.52.89) on: Sat Feb 12 09:40:35 EST 2000
  
  Nadopasaka:
  It is D.Pattammal not D.K.Pattammal who is the singer. You might say that if you discount the modern ones, the remining ones are Andal. Auvayyar and Kuttikunju Tangachchi.
  
  
• From: Lakshman (@ 216.208.52.89) on: Sat Feb 12 09:40:55 EST 2000
  
  Nadopasaka:
  It is D.Pattammal not D.K.Pattammal who is the singer. You might say that if you discount the modern ones, the remining ones are Andal, Auvayyar and Kuttikunju Tangachchi.
  
  
• From: Sree (@ 134.243.96.152) on: Mon Feb 14 10:19:59 EST 2000
  
  Nadopasaka:
  
  The dark ages of gender bias (if any, at least among Tamils) started only after the invasion of Moghuls. We have had illustrous composers, poets and ambassadors, ministers and philosophers who belonged to the fairer sex. If you look further in to tamil literature you'll know...
  
  
• From: Nadopasaka (@ adppp32.buffnet.net) on: Mon Feb 14 13:19:29 EST 2000
  
  Sree
  I was curious about Carnatic music only, not tamil literature. But there doesn't seem to be a heck of lot of improvement even in the last 200-300 years. May have more to do with Manu than the Moghuls.
  
  
• From: Sree (@ 134.243.96.152) on: Tue Feb 15 09:24:51 EST 2000
  
  Hmm.... not really ;-) Manu is not a tamil concept ;-) Anyway, we are digressing and this is not the place to discuss that. Perhaps we'll meet and talk about this in some other forum. ;-)
  
  
• From: Sree (@ 134.243.96.152) on: Tue Feb 15 09:32:25 EST 2000
  
  BTW, could you explain why there aren't any illustrous western music composers that belong to
  fairer sex? Does Manu have anything to do with that too? ;-)
  
  My point is: What Manu said might
  have been applicable for that time much like varnashramam of Gita. Perversion crept in to the
  society and killing the spirit behind the concept; much like what is happening to democracy of today.
  
  
• From: Nadopasaka (@ aippp5.buffnet.net) on: Tue Feb 15 11:14:27 EST 2000
  
  Since the Moghuls don't appear to have invaded the West ( the Huns ??), we would have to invoke other concepts to explain what you say about female western music composers.
  Maybe in Carnatic music, women were content with male compositions or simply non-compositional ragas. Perhaps some of the women who read this thread may give some input.
  
  
• From: Sree (@ 134.243.96.152) on: Tue Feb 15 16:25:06 EST 2000
  
  Invasion of Moghuls may not be relevant for the west but is a very pertinent issue as far as Indian society is concerned. Tamil/Indian music scene is well dcoumented before Moghul invasion. Likewise, changes in the society brought by the invasion are also well documented.
  
  chilapathikAram talks about tamil music that existed in 100-200 AD. One of the main female characters is a composer/performer.
  
  
• From: Vidya (@ dialup-67.72.203.47.dial1.detroit1.level3.net) on: Wed Dec 10 16:09:07
  
  >>Perhaps some of the women who read this thread may give some input.
  
  Saw this thread when searching for some info on D.Pattammal.When you can include Andal and Avvyar why leave out Karaikkal Ammayar?
  
  Leaving aside Manu,Moghuls and Mozart it would be interesting to take this issue closer to the 1600s + times when composers held sway in the Tanjavur belt.
  
  There were many female composeresses - particularly of dancedrama/operatic poetry/music kind and poetesses in the nayak court - particular during Vijayaraghava nayak's time.
  There were some who ventured into the realm of shrngara too.But I find it amazing that many og them ended up becoming (out of choice or chance - I wonder?)concubines of the rulers.
  
  I personally feel that this stigma would have been a prime reason that kept women away from art.
  
  
• From: Lakshman (@ kit-max1-33.196.porchlight.ca) on: Wed Dec 10 16:58:13 EST 2003
  
  Vidya: You might have noticed that I have mentioned the names of many females who have composed songs/poetry. The only raeson Karaikkal Ammaiyar was not mentioned was because I don't have anuy listing of her compositions sung by any musician. Among males, only in the past few years has Kambar's poetry been set to music and rendered by TNS. Has anyone attempted to tuneset and sing the poetry of Karaikkal Ammaiyar?
  
  
• From: meena (@ user-1121edm.dsl.mindspring.com) on: Wed Dec 10 19:54:38 EST 2003
  
  Lji,
  movie Karaikkal Ammaiyar, does this count? ha ha
  http://www.intamm.com/songs/kbs.htm
  
  
• From: Vidya (@ dialup-67.72.202.101.dial1.detroit1.level3.net) on: Thu Dec 11 02:26:29 EST 2003
  
  Lakshman
  I said Karaikkal Ammayar since her hymns contain much more musical information than others.She lists all the seven Tamil swaras in one of the patikams.Hence It is more likely that she was a composer.I guess they have always been and are sung in the tamizh tradition.
  
  
• From: Pasupathy (@ hse-hamilton-ppp189893.sympatico.ca) on: Thu Dec 11 16:14:32 EST 2003
  
  Papanasam Sivan has written a whole Isai NAdagam
  on the life of KAraikkAl Ammaiyaar ..and even that is not well-known unlike Sivan's other Isai
  NAdagam Sri RAma charitham !
  
  Actually I have seen a ref to a Thesis in Tamil (Ph.D, I think) by JnAmbikAi DEvi KulEndran , called " KAraikkAl AmmaiyAr thennindhiya icaiyin thaay" (KA is the mother of south Indian music)...
  
  
  
  
• From: Vidya (@ dialup-67.72.202.252.dial1.detroit1.level3.net) on: Fri Dec 12 02:41:18 EST 2003
  
  Here is one more person.
  http://www.chennaionline.com/musicnew/devotional/aavadai.asp
  
  
• From: Pasupathy (@ hse-hamilton-ppp190338.sympatico.ca) on: Fri Dec 12 23:19:31 EST 2003
  
  Yes, I have the book of Avudai AkkAL's songs. Apart from folk-song types like sindhu, kummi etc, there are 74 'njAna rasa' kIrthaNa-s. All of them philosophical in nature. The ragas are stated in the book itself, so
  one can call her a true composer of words and tune.
  I haven't heard the cassette...will be interesting to
  see how Bombay Sisters have interpreted those songs.
  
  
• From: Vidya (@ dialup-67.72.202.215.dial1.detroit1.level3.net) on: Sat Dec 13 02:42:25 EST 2003
  
  I wanted to ask the two questions,one of which
  Shri Pasupathy has already answered.I guess unlike Sadashiva Brahmendra ,the AyyavAL influence and the bhajana sampradaya center might have been the reason for both lyrics + music.
  
  The other was about the language in which she composed - Are they all in Tamil or Are there any in sanskrit or manipravalam etc
  
  
• From: Pasupathy (@ hse-hamilton-ppp190312.sympatico.ca) on: Sat Dec 13 12:39:25 EST 2003
  
  Vidya:
  I'll try to type more particulars ...
  Meanwhile, another recent lady composer who has
  composed devotional keerthanai-s was 'ANdavan Pichai'... While I have heard PithukuLi Murugadas sing her songs, recently I heard a song on the Concert stage by someone (Sudha R?) ( aruNa S ?)... i forgot.
  
  Pasupathy
  
  
• From: Lakshman (@ kit-max2-32.98.porchlight.ca) on: Sat Dec 13 16:39:07 EST 2003
  
  It is Sudha Raghunathan. You can listen to at least a couple of songs by Andavan Piccai (kAkkavenrO, kAl mAri ADiya) at:
  http://www.sudharagunathan.com/newreleases.htm#
  
  
• From: Pasupathy (@ hse-hamilton-ppp189854.sympatico.ca) on: Sun Dec 14 09:34:52 EST 2003
  
  Thanks, Laxman.
  
  Some details about Avudai akkAL.
  1) all songs are in Tamil... many sanskrit words are
  of course there.
  2) jNaana rasa kIrthanai-s; 74 in number.
  The ragas used: sAveri,nAdhanAmakriyai, bUpALam,Anandhabairavi,Arabi,thOdi,kalyANi,madhyamAvathi, mOhanam, saurAshtram,kAmbOthi,dhanyAsi,sankarAbaraNam,yadhukula
  kAmbOthi,mukAri,punnAgavarALi, bairavi,surutti,kEthAragowLai,sahAnA.
  3) a sample in TSC fonts
  
  ¬Éó¾¨ÀÃÅ¢
  À.
  Àââ÷½¡Éó¾ ͸õ ¾ó¾ ÌÕ¿¡¾¡
  ÀÅ츼¨Äò ¾£÷òÐ ¨Åò¾£÷, ¦Åí¸§¼º¡!
  «.À.
  †Ã¢†Ã ôÃõÁ¡¾¢Ô¼ý «ñ¼¦ÁøÄ¡õ ²¸¦ÁýÚ
  òÕ¼õ ¦º¡øÄ¢ ±ý¨É «¨ÆòÐ ±ÉÐ ÅÄî ¦ºÅ¢Â¢ø
  "«…¢" š츢Âò¨¾ ¯À§¾º¢ò¾£÷ (Àâ)
  º.
  ¸øÀ¨É¡ø ¸¡ñÀ¦¾øÄ¡õ ¸ÕòÐìÌû§Ç ¾¡§É
  ¸¡Éø ƒÄõ§À¡ø ¸ñÎ ¸Ç¢ò¾¢Õì¸Ä¡§Éý
  «øÀÁ¢ó¾ ÁÛ„¢Â¦ÃýÚ «È¢óЦ¸¡ûÇÄ¡§Éý
  ¡ÕìÌû§Ç «¼íÌÁ¢ó¾ «ÅÉ¢ìÌû ¾¡§É
  ŠÅôÉÁ¡ö ¸ñ¼¦¾øÄ¡õ ¦º¡øÄ¢ì ¦¸¡ñÊÕó¾¡Öõ
  §º¡¸Óñ§¼¡, §Á¡¸Óñ§¼¡, ¾¡ÀÓñ§¼¡ ¾ýÁÂÁ¡ÉÀ¢ý (Àâ)
  
  
  Pasupathy
  
  
  
• From: Jawahar (@ lan-202-144-91-163.maa.sify.net) on: Sat May 8 08:33:28
  
  I had a biography of andavan pichai.while shifting house i lost it.can anyone help me in getting the book please.it was bought my grandpa.he is no more and i have no clue as to where to get it.I would be greatful to the person who helps me.u can give me a lead where i can get it or if someone has a copy they can send me a copy i will take xerox and give back.
  
  
• From: Dr.Shrikaanth K. Murthy (@ acbc159d.ipt.aol.com) on: Sat May 8 21:12:21 EDT 2004
  
  Hi guys
  there have been female composers in the haridAsa line as well- HeLavanakatti giriyamma & HarapanahaLLi bhImavva: the former used the mudra "heLavanakatti raMga" & the latter "bhImESa krShNa". And dont forget akkamahAdEvi from the SivaSaraNas who composed and sung vacanas. There was also a female composer from karnAtaka in the 19th-20th century who composed songs in the viSiStAdvaita mArga. sorry I cant recall her name.
  Dr.Shrikaanth K.Murthy
  
  

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