Tamil Bajans - by Vallalar
Topic started by Idiappam (@ cache138.156ce.maxonline.com.sg) on Fri May 30 07:45:11 .
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
http://www.vallalar.org/realaudio/Second%20Thirumurai/Chapter-0100/Second%20Thirumurai%20Chapter-100-Audio%20Index.htm
What raga is this set to?
Responses:
- Old responses
- From: Karuvayan (@ law-b8.law.utexas.edu)
on: Wed Jun 4 16:58:05 EDT 2003
From the same website you quoted
"Moreover, there are cultural and individual factors to be taken into account, and a person who has a nirvana-like experience after taking a drug need not have that experience only because he took the drug. "
From this itself we can make out the Mysticism is not completely related to having drugs.
A piece of advice - don't try to bark when you cannot bite. That hinduism is a far scientific and superior religion has been accepted by scholars such as Carl Sagan and Freidreich Nietzsche and Fritjof Capra.
Don't peddle around your half baked knowledge like the DMK morons and Dr.Madurai Muttal does. It will not take you anywhere.
- From: Idiappam (@ cache138.156ce.maxonline.com.sg)
on: Wed Jun 4 19:01:54 EDT 2003
Ok, I have given you ample time, so stop side tracking and pray tell me where in sama veda or in your imaginary 'gandarva chapter' of sama veda were the 7 swaras mentions. Just provide the verses and everyone can see how 'very good' or 'good for nothing' that veda is!
Kindly stop your Prof Staal, carl sagan, fred niet, frit capra, references. They won't get you anywhere closer to the vedas.
Karuvaayan, my boy, please read the vedas and tell me where music is written in them.
English translation of Sama Veda at:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/sv.htm
- From: Karuvayan (@ law-b9.law.utexas.edu)
on: Wed Jun 4 20:15:56 EDT 2003
Dear Burnt out dosai kall. Why are you afraid of Carl Sagan, Nietzsche and Capra? Afraid they love the beastiality of the vedas???
- From: Karuvayan (@ law-b9.law.utexas.edu)
on: Wed Jun 4 20:19:51 EDT 2003
See this: Gandharva Veda forms one of the 4 upavedas. And besides, I have the authority of U V Swaminatha Aiyer to back the statement that the sillApadikAram cannot be more older than 100 BCE (which is beyond the axial age). Much before this, around 300 BCE, there was music formally developed by the Mauryas. Remember, it was the Tamizh kings themselves who imported culture and vedic practices from the north.
- From: Idiappam (@ cache138.156ce.maxonline.com.sg)
on: Wed Jun 4 21:16:34 EDT 2003
Please, Karuvaayan, my boy, don't pull a fast one.
Where have the sanskritist talked about Indian music prior to Silapathigaaram. Reference please!!!!! Silapadigaram is dated 2nd century CE(AD) -even that you can't get right.
Let me tell you again. The first book on music in sanskrit was my Sarangadeva - 1240 CE(AD) - the Sangeetaratnakaara.
Don't sidetrack by bringing in the 4 upavedas. They are just a collection of books in Sanskrit written later. Of which, the Gandarva Veda is the last collection of 15 books - written after Sarangadeva. Surprisingly, besides a brief mentions of the terms of music - like 'sahitya', 'kavya' etc. etc, there is no further description of music in those book. Probably Sarangadeva is not precise in his musicology as such could not give the Sanskritists enough guidance. - See E. Clements, the British musicologist, commentary on Sangeetratnakaara.
Ilango Adival was good -as earlier as he can be - a detailed description of the Palais and moorchanaas were given in his silapathigaaram.
I urge you to do a little more work on the Gandarvas - their dates and contents, and much more on musicology before you make further comments.
I know enough of music and Sanskrit to take you on this.
And don't forget to look for the Samavedic verse you claim is 'the origin of Indian music'
- From: Idiappam (@ cache138.156ce.maxonline.com.sg)
on: Wed Jun 4 22:14:11 EDT 2003
And in the meantime listen to Vallalar's 'AniponambalatE' at:
http://www.vallalar.org/realaudio/Sixth%20Thirumurai/Chapter-0109/4914-Aanipponnambalam-PG.mp3
BTW, what raga is this set to?
And read the english translation of the song at:
http://www.alchemywebsite.com/ramaling.html
- From: Karuvayan (@ law-b9.law.utexas.edu)
on: Wed Jun 4 22:30:04 EDT 2003
My Dear Dosai kall thalai, why don't you try to imbibe some of the wisdom of Vallalar? BTW, Vallalar also sang about the glory of Veeraraghavan - the diety at the VADAKALAI shrine!
If you follow even 1% of the teachings of Vallalar, you would learn how to think!
- From: Idiappam (@ cache138.156ce.maxonline.com.sg)
on: Wed Jun 4 22:36:56 EDT 2003
Karuvaayan my boy, this is a music thread. It does not matter is the listener agrees with the lyrics or not. It does not even matter is he doesn't understand the language.
Again this is about MUSIC. Not theology - go elsewhere with your crap, my Karuvaayan!
BTW, have you finished you homework on the Sama-Gandarva vedic 'music'?
- From: Karuvayan (@ law-b8.law.utexas.edu)
on: Wed Jun 4 23:10:02 EDT 2003
My dear burnt out dosai kall. I agree it does not matter whether one agrees to the lyrics or not. For that matter, it should not matter to listen to the music of the two jihadis who rammed into the WTC on 9/11. It should not even matter to listen to the music of kashmiri terrorists.
- From: Idiappam (@ cache138.156ce.maxonline.com.sg)
on: Thu Jun 5 01:57:37 EDT 2003
Of course, of course my boy, karuvaayan. It does not matter - even to listen to AR Rahman - the brahmin born who converted to Islam.
And of course it does not matter even to listen to the Nadaswaram of Sheik Cinna Moulana Sahib - who played 'Temple music'. Adi kondar, alaipaithe and samajavaragamana. Literally, he blew away religious fanatism that you accuse the muslims of. He can blow away your the fanatism in you too.
Let him blow at:
http://www.musicindiaonline.com/music/l/00010N/?20
- From: Karuvayan (@ pcl-b114.lib.utexas.edu)
on: Thu Jun 5 17:41:56 EDT 2003
Why don't you read about Anwar Shaikh, the Kashmiri muslim who converted to hinduism or about George Harrisson - may be they can drive some sense into your dosai kall thalai.
- From: Karuvayan (@ pcl-b114.lib.utexas.edu)
on: Thu Jun 5 17:42:21 EDT 2003
BTW, A R Rahman was not a brahmin.
- From: Idiappam (@ cache138.156ce.maxonline.com.sg)
on: Thu Jun 5 19:02:04 EDT 2003
Comming back to the point. You should by now understand that:
1. Sanskritists had no music!
2. The ealiers work in Sanskrit on music is by a kashmiri born - Sarangadeva (1240) Sageetratnakara.
3. The Sanskritists tend to clain that indian music evolved form the Sama Veda - that is lie. The sama veda talks of plunder on the natives, animal sacrifice, women abouse etc and nothing about music.
4. The Sanskritists gave weird sounding names for tunes to bewilder the natives into thinking that music is something very difficult.
5. The sanskritiists did nothing to develop music - they just plagarised the native music and called it their own - The decietful, fraudlent and crooked lot, the Sanskritists.
BTW, have you located the 'verses' that talk of music in the Sama or 'Gandarva' veda as you claimed. Kamasutra of Vatsayana is one of the 15 books that consitute Gandarva veda! Check that too!
- From: Karuvayan (@ law-b2.law.utexas.edu)
on: Thu Jun 5 19:08:09 EDT 2003
Some of these lies these DMK/DK brainwashed morons propogate is that the Aryans are barbaric invaders while providing no archaeological or biological proof for that.
However, I have to admire them for one thing. They have managed to send representatives to the USA like Dr Madurai Veeran and even managed to convince Singapore born tamizhs like Dr Burnt out Idiappam.
- From: Idiappam (@ cache138.156ce.maxonline.com.sg)
on: Thu Jun 5 21:01:38 EDT 2003
Karuvaayan, this is a public forum. If I dare to put it across that there is nothing in Sanskrit until recently about Indian Music (including North Indian Music) - it means that I know my facts well. You have to proof your claims otherwise - that the roots of this music is in those Sanskrit Literature.
Don't think you can just wriggle your way out by bringing in Prof Staal, other westerners, and the DMK/DK -it would be much honourable if you just aceept what I say of the History of Indian Music.
It does not need the DMK or DK to expose the lies of the Sanskritist - anyone, anywhere with common sense can detect them.
This is a challenge to you. Where is it stated in Sanskrit prior to Silapadigaram, things like music, notes, semitones, tuning of the harp etc.? I am telling you now - THERE is NONE.
Sanskritists were barbaric nomads- they knew no music!
- From: Karuvayan (@ dhcp-196-211.ece.utexas.edu)
on: Fri Jun 6 06:09:44 EDT 2003
There is a story in the Panchatantra how a wise bird was burnt to dead by a bunch of foolish monkeys who tried to light a fire using a firefly.
It makes no sense talking to you, lest I be burnt by your fire of hatred.
- From: Idiappam (@ cache138.156ce.maxonline.com.sg)
on: Fri Jun 6 08:13:58 EDT 2003
Ya, just stick to your panchatantra, arabian nights, fairy tales, tenali raman stories. Don't temper with history.
Paati vadai sutta kathai soluraan, karuvaayan.
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