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Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
Post queries or discuss about ragas of tamil film songs:

The Keyboard & Swara notation used in this thread:

http://www.mayyam.com/talk/attachment.php?attachmentid=927&d=1325845252


"Raga based film songs" Database (http://mayyam.com/wiki/index.php/Category:Ragas_of_Film_Songs) | <a href=http://tfmpage.com/forum/classical.html>Old Database</a> | Indian Classical Music Forum (http://forumhub.com/indcmusic/) | Hindi Raaga of Songs Thread (http://forumhub.com/indfilms/10256.14.48.31.html)

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
Old responses (http://tfmpage.com/forum/18488.ros.html)

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
Indrajith , dont get tensed . . .i was personally emailed by a carnatic expert here in M`sia that that song belonged to hamsanadham . . by the way , is rosapoo chinna rosapoo Natabairavi? Please confirm this ONLY . . .if not natabairavi , then what?

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
Indrajith-

You are right. They are different. I have mentioned that. // But bhavam and feelwise, they are a world apart.//

Dont you agree that, as for aarohanam/avarohanam - they vary by only one swaram?

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
Indrajith, en tension agureenga? :) I just heard that song once and so cud nt find if its Hamsanadham or hamsadwani. Also, am not an expert in raagas I identify raagas only by listening to songs and i dont use any scientific methods.But I do know that Hamsadwani and Hnaadam are radically different.:)

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
even nadham and dhwani (of Hamsa!)almost are quite similar in their meanings :->

Karthik Raja I think is quite a fan of this raga..even for the Hindi films that he has composed he has used Hamsanadam wonderfully.The fims are "Grahan","december 16" etc...

Do we have a equivalent in Hindustani for Hamsanadam? and I have read that D2 is also used in Hamsanadam by a lot of carnatic musicians..maybe as a gamaka from N3..??

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
Hamsanadham is known as Malarani in Hindusthani.
srini ,
Tension illa sami... mandai kayudhu..
How can one possibly compare Hamsanadham and Hamsadwani. And an explanation also which says only one swara differs. For example lets take

Melakartha 15: Mayamalava gowla :
S R1 G3 M1 P D1 N3 S S N3 D1 P M1 G3 R1 S
Melakartha 51: Kamavardhini ( Panthuvarali):
S R1 G3 M2 P D1 N3 S S N3 D1 P M2 G3 R1 S

Only one swara ( MA) differs.
Can I say both are very near and comparable.
It looks funny.

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
An appeal to all,
Please dont get stuck with the swaras of ragas.
And compare ragas based on the swaras.
Though many of you agree that Raga has swaroopa and all , we people stick to discuss things only based on swaras.

We can go ahead singing say shankarabharanam without Madhyamam and still Make it complete shankarabharanam than Kalyani.
The difference is not just in Ma but the way you sing.

And I have seen people telling that because Note X comes in the song in such and such place it is not Raga A but it is Raga B. It sounds very ridiculous.

If a song goes using swaras sa ri ga ma dha sa and goes for 90 % of the song's prayogas are like that and suddenly in one or 2 places it sprays Ni
Will you call that song as Abohi or Sri ranjani.
Though it is trying to use Ni , for me it is still Abohi.

Please try to understand and try avoiding discussions based on swaras.

I think the major problem with this forum is that some of the people who are posting are instrument players. And they tend to tilt towards swaras always. Here I am very specific about people who play Keyboards, Amature flutists, who are not well off with usage of gamakas.

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
Indrajith, I second your opinion. Also it is absolute futility in trying to map every single song to some raga . Example is asking raga for songs like "elangaathu vesudhe" or "onna vida" or "good bye nanba". Even the mds don't think of any ragam in most of the cases and even they would be flabbergasted if u say this song belongs to kathyayini or some fancy name

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
Indrajith, good advice, especially for a couple of people here who have the habit of mapping all IR songs(most of them dont have any characteristic gamakas/raga prayogas) to some unknown ragas with loong names(based on just notes) which even IR wouldnt be aware of.
Over-reliance on keyboards doesnt help.

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
ok. I believe i have made my point clear in my earlier post. But for everybody's benefit, what i was trying to do is, to find a 'method' to srini's 'madness'.

our friend srini was listening to a song and felt that it was hamsadwani - while sai felt it was hamsanadham (me too). I know that the above two ragas are no way close to each other. But, i went a step further to find if the swarams are playing games with srini and found that their ascend and descend (swarams. not bhavam. not personality. etc. etc.) are similar except for one swaram. (that's a fact. no dispute in that.) So, i told him - this is the deal. So, maybe - just maybe - swarams are playing games with him.

There is a difference in a Carnatic Classical musician handling a ragam and a film MD handling a ragam (for him it may not be even a ragam - but just a scale - sequence of notes.)
When a carnatic classical singer handles a ragam, he is very concious about it and makes sure he touches the jeeva-swarams and signature prayogams (prayogams that defines ragam) frequently - so as to NOT send mixed-signals.
But when it comes to a MD, he may not care about the ragam (for him it is just a sequence of notes). So, there is no guarantee that he will touch the jeeva swarams or use the signature prayogams (often or at all).
So, in the above raga pair, if the MD uses PNSR (without touching G or M2), isnt it possible for somebody - who is more familiar with hamsadwani than hamsanadham - to think the song is in hamsadwani?

For the record, i second indrajith, mythila and vijay's opinions.
(this would be my last post on this topic.)

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
Vijay, were you specifically referring to my reference to Karnataka Khamas for the song 'Unthanin Paadal' (Raakkayil Koyil)? I genuinely feel that it is correct. It is NOT swaras alone that led me to believe that the song is based on Karnataka Khamas raagam, although the swaras used in the song are Sa, Ga3, Ma1, Pa, Dha2, and Ni2. It's also that the song had the same bhavam as you call it that 'Koottathile Koyil Puraa' had.

Anyway, people who are more expert than me can listen to the song and give their input. Will be much appreciated.

By the by, Indrajith, could you pls. tell us how you figured the song 'Othaiyile Ninnadhenna' from Vanajaa Girijaa is based on raagam Yadhukulakhambhodhi? It's not about my having the last word; I'm really interested in knowing the raaga characteristics in the song. I never heard the song before, and there's no guarantee I will ever hear this song.

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
Another question: how is it that a song may be played using Sa, Ri2, Ga3, Pa, Dha2 and Ni3, and have the grammar of Shankarabharanam? Doesn't omission of Ma1 make a big difference in the tune's flavor? Thus, wouldn't the melody have to be called by a different name than Shankarabharanam? (btw, this scale can be called Aanandharoopa or Suranandhini, courtesy of royal carpet Karnatik site)


I mean, I understand how even using anya swaras a song can still retain a certain raaga flavor. For instance, 'Kathum Kaathal' from Kattumarakaran uses the notes of Sarasangi and a few extra notes like Sadhaarana Gaandhaaram and Chathusruthi Dhaivatam, but when I hear the song I hear Sarasangi raagam.

What if you wrote a song intended to be based on Revathi raagam, and intermittently used Dha1 for decoration (more specifically, for gamakam of the Pa or the Ni)? Would the raaga still be Revathi?

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
Purv, not necessarily Undhanin paadal song but some of your earlier lists like the one here
http://tfmpage.com/forum/23893.ros.html (http://tfmpage.com/forum/23893.ros.html
)

-doesnt make much sense. Mere note-mapping exercises, to try to map a song like "kaali perungaaya dabba" with no depth/bhaavam in the tune whatsoever to rishabapriya or some-x-or-y-saveri. You need to listen to carnatic krithis in those rare ragas first, develop a sense for the characteristic usages/flavor and see if they have been brought out well in those TFM songs. Many IR songs have flat notes, devoid of the gamakas that are the speciality/defining characteristic as far as carnatic music is concerned. So it makes no sense to map those songs to some unknown raga and feel happy about it. We are just deluding ourselves. The MDs themselves might be unaware of such scales. On the other hand, for something a bit more classical like "karaiyaadha manamundo" I can understand the need to map.

Finally, I suggest that you listen to more TFM songs from the 60s as well in sites like musicindiaonline.com, if you are serious about raga usages and such. If you like Ravindran, you would love GR/MSV/KVM's usage of ragas

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
Indrajith & Haris,
Why this negative air?. I just said am not sure about the raga bcoz i've heard the song only once. I also said "may be I shud listen to it a couple of more times." I wonder if it warrants words like "Madness". That really sucks.

I am in this forum to gain knowledge in an area am interested in, but not an expert at. So lets not argue about this anymore here in this forum.Hope you guys would agree.

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
'Kaali Perungaaya Dabba' does use the Rishabapriya scale. But being a dappanguthu song, the bhavam is really scanty. Now, I was NOT the first one to identify 'Kaali Perungaaya Dabba' with Rishabapriya raagam. I picked this up from the RaajaNGAHM site and Vel's Ilaiyaragam database. I was only taking their word for it.

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
Srini- 'method to the madness' is an expression. It actually is a positive one. google for it.

http://www.allwords.com/word-methodically.html (http://www.allwords.com/word-methodically.html
)
Idiom: method in one's madness

Reason or good sense underlying what seems an odd or chaotic situation or procedure.

Method in one's madness - an element of good sense in otherwise senseless behaviour
An adaptation of Polonius' comment on Hamlet's madness in which there are moments of sanity: 'Though this be madness, yet there is method in't' (II, 2, line 211). Method here means 'orderliness of thought'.
(needless to say , this is my last post in this topic)

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
Purv, dont go by online raga databases or what someone else says. Find out for yourself whether the song even has enough stuff in it to warrant a raga search/mapping. Kaali perungaya dabba clearly doesnt.Undhanin paadal is another flat song from IR that doesnt warrant any raga mapping.

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
Dear All,
Lets not make this a fighting forum!thanks
haris:I think its not good to stay away from challenges...you should continue..I dont think there are any "personal" attacks in this forum

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
For a change can anyone explain the differences for the ragas below.

Raga Kedar in Hindustani and HamirKalyani:

Whenever I hear Raga Kedar I always think it sounds like Hamir kalyani ..for eg the below songs
1)HamKo man ki shakti--Guddi
2)Pal do Pal ka--Burning train.
Is Kedar an equivalent to Hamir Kalyani in Carnatic?


There are prayogas like Sm1G3PD DPM2M1G in Kedar which I see being used in Nila kagirathu(Indira-ARR) song ,Harini Version.Finally can someone tell me does this song belong to any one raga..this song has been discussed before but not on time I have got an answer..

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
Yes Hindusthani Kedhar = Carnatic Hamir Kalyani.
------------------------------------------------
Raga Kedaris available in all forms like Dhrupad, Dhamar, Khayal, Thumri and so on. it is not a scalar rAga, amenable to reconstruction with elemental Aroha-avarohi phrases. There is much more to it than merely piecing together and summing up a group of tonal clusters.

The rAga employs all shuddha swaras and the teevra madhyam. Throughout the discussion, M = shuddha and m = teevra madhyam. The heart of Kedar lies in the following turn of phrase (pun intended):

S M, M G P, D->M, S R, S

The meeND from D->M is vital. The powerful shuddha madhyam defines the rAga's tonal 'centre.' The pancham is strong and a location for nyAsa.
Let us briefly examine the lakshaNAs and some of the supporting melodic constructs. The sound clips adduced later will clarify and reinforce these ideas.

S R S M, M, M G P

The gandhAr is used lightly (alpatva) as a vault from madhyam to the pancham. A variation on the uThAva (launch) - S M (G)m, P - illustrates the subtle interplay of the two madhyams, a feature of the rAga. The consecutive madhyams may likewise manifest themselves in avarohAtmaka prayogas: P m M. It must be emphasized that although the madhyams appear cheek by jowl in written form the intonation is not so simple: the slide is always mediated by a meeND or a kaNa-swara (grace note). In some traditional Dhrupad and Dhamar compositions, phrases such as G M R S or M G R S are observed but they have fallen out of favour in recent times. It bears mentioning that the proportion of the teevra madhyam is far less than that of the shuddha madhyam. In some older accounts and compositions, the teevra madhyam barely receives acknowledgement.

M, M G P, P (m)D->P->m->M
Upon arrival at the pancham a couple of options suggest themselves. One may simply repair to the shuddha madhyam via a meeND grazing m en route. Or one could execute a meeND originating on the dhaivat back down along the D->P->m->M locus.

PDPP S", S" (N)R" S"
mPDNS"R"S"
P N (N)D S"
These are some of the prescribed prayogas for an uttarAnga launch.

S" R" S", (S")D P M
S", S"NDPM

These are typical avarohAtmaka prayogas originating from the tAra shaDaj. Appearances are deceptive since every step of the way is laden with a meeND or a delicate curve. Swara ucchAraNa means everything to this rAga. The delicious swoop from the tAra shaDaj back to the shuddha madhyam makes whistle-stops along the way on the dhaivat and the pancham. Accurate description of such prayogas is beyond the scope of the written word.

The dhaivat is piquant but it is not a location for nyAsa. The role of the shuddha nishAd is ambivalent. It is not used for nyAsa but the proportion and manner are functions of the performer's background. Typically the musician's asthAi-antarAs (i.e. the canonical composition he chooses to amplify on) will betray the rAga-lakshaNAs. We will not point to all the auxillary strands and embellishments that make for the Kedar tapestry. Each stylistic school or region has its own manner of putting flesh to the generally accepted kernel. In this sense, Kedar furnishes an apt metaphor for Indian tradition in the wider context.

The komal nishAd is optional and when introduced, is rendered weak in a vivAdi-like role: m P D n D P. A final remark on tAnbAzi: straight tAns do not sit well with this rAga. Typically, the swara doublets SS MM PP and triplets SSS MMM PPP are executed, not a trivial undertaking.

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
**how is it that a song may be played using Sa, Ri2, Ga3, Pa, Dha2 and Ni3, and have the grammar of Shankarabharanam? Doesn't omission of Ma1 make a big difference in the tune's flavor? **

Just by playing the Gandharam we can make audiance understand that it is shankarabharanam.
The sancharas like G R S N P D N S in mandthra
sthayee alone will do for shankarabharanam. That's where the gamakam come to play.

"The Jeeva swara, the note that makes Shankarabharanam come alive is Gandhara or Ga in middle octave which makes the raga very soothing. Usage of the same Ga in upper octave (Tara sthayee) has an electrifying effect. "

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
Purv,
Regarding othayila Ninnadhenna...I dont have any comments. You listen to it and decide for you.

All,

I dont really understand how you people Mark the Shatjam from a film song that you listen Just like that. ( if it does not use tanpura or anything of that sort to Fix the scale)

By virtue it can be any of the raga's swarabedha group. rite?? :)) SO don't call any song as it is of XYZ Raga. You can say that it is of XYZ scale.

For your kind information,
Scale is different and Raga is different.

By the way if you want some valuable details about raga Yadhukula Kamboji please follow this link.

http://www.carnatica.net/newsletter/ykambhojinewsletter.htm

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
Indrajith, very nice explanations.

I wish we had more such genuine "knowledgeables" and those who also "participate/share" their knowledge..(and does not hold any "prejudice/shamefull hidden agendas" vis-a-vis any particular MD or particular fellow DFer..that sucks)...i really appreciate your participation and patient explanations. Last week there was a program in DD1 wherein they explained kedar. I coud instantly relate to a old song (i think it is ennuyir thozhi kel oru saidhi) which i have seen to be refered as 'hamir kalyani'..correct me if i am wrong. Can you, also explain more abt maand and the misra maand with examples? Does misra maand allow usages of R1, M2, D1 etc? Nowhere to be found out, the definitions..Not even in those "rotten" online raga databases ;-)

purv,

I wud still say that the song is indeed rishabhapriya, and perhaps as Indrajith said, you just may have to compromise with a few anya awaras. The same with "jodi nadhigal paadhai vilagi" (anbe odi vaa) and "amma amma endha aaruyire" (uzhaipaali) which are both raga kathyayini (who is bothered if the MD himself knew this...there is no way u r gonna find that out, if the MD indeed had the raga in mind...MDs may not have had the ragas in their mind, but they definetly know the scale they have used..its me & you who give the names, for easy reference...but the names of these rare scales per se shudnt scare our "i-know-only-30-keerthanais-so-pls-kindly-entertain-my-ego-within-this-boundary-and-dont-scare-me-with-the-unknown" mindset...)

Well....to clear some dark clouds hanging over this thread, here are some light-hearted usages of ragas (That too in the context of whether the "GAMAKKAM specialist Vs the INSTRUMENTALISTS", is right)...Here it goes..

"....Has anyone got anything to comment upon the folkish use of senchuruti in "aatukutti muttai ittu" and sree ragam in "solam vidhaikiyile" songs in 16 vayadhinile?...Genius compositions by the genius composer.."

:-)) Oops, i did it again.

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
Good points on scale vs raga differentiation. But it falls on deaf ears sometimes. People will be back to assigning x-y-z-saaveri raga to some godforsaken songs which no one else other than them would bother to give a second listen :-)

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
Is the song 'Vaadi pottapulla veliye en valibatha nogadicha kiliye' (film??)based on any raga? (subhapanthuvarali??)

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
Vel, You seem to be missing the whole point which knowledgeable(by your own admission) like Indrajith was trying to make. Again you come up with some songs which may be only having shades of Senchuruti or sriragam or based on that scale. That way, every second song in IFM , why TFM alone, will have some raga shade or other. I think the thread's purpose is to analyse, appreciate TFM songs which are strictly based on classical ragas (some accidentals may be ok) and not just scale. One need not sit with the MD to know the motive. IR has himself told in many interviews, he desn't think of any raga while composing. While that being the case, the discussion would be misleading novices like me when tall claims are made about some non existent ragas in a song.

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
"...Again you come up with some songs which may be only having shades of Senchuruti or sriragam..."

Dont assume gentleman. I was specifically asking ppl (the "real" knowledgeables", not the ENT specialists over here) to analyse because i find a genuine reason for my claim. So a novice/naive instrumentalist (me) is asking a gamakkam specialist (sans any "prejudice/shamefull hidden agendas") abt his perceptions on a song.

Idhukku yen neenga tension aareenga puriyala..:-) Cool it yaar...Ungalukku therinja contribute pannunga...Otherwise, well...Juz forget it.

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
Thumburu, quite true about the comment on misleading ppl. In fact a participant on a TV music programme sometime back wrongly quoted the raga of a song to the judge and when the judge asked the source of her info she said that she took it from an online TFM raga database.That is the kind of "service" some of these online TFM raga databases, which are run by fan(atic)s of a particular MD, are providing.

I think one can start an online "raga database" site for even Deva and SA Rajkumar songs if every song of theirs is mapped to a scale :-)) I am pretty sure Deva would have atleast a couple of songs in some Sunadhavinodhini or Sumanesranjani if his songs are mapped meticulously to a scale :-)

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
But vijay, what if a song the notes of, say, Sunaadhavinodhini (which to my knowledge has not yet been attempted in film music) and the melody sounds different from Sivaranjani or Revathi, the grahabedham counterparts of Sunaadhavinodhini? Then, why wouldn't it be based on Sunaadhavinodhini raagam?

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
I wud like to add some more...JEEZ, i am spoiling my holiday mood thoroughly..OK this is my last post, last for this topic, and probably the last in this thread.

Thumburu....

i too can point about a "self-proclaimed" guardian of "carnatic music" who claimed "pon meni urugudhe" is sree raagam. Scale-wise, i cud easily discard the claim, playing it over the keyboard. So JUNK comes from both worlds. DOUBTS linger both for the instrumentalists and the gamakkam specialists...My querry however was abt a genuine case of sree ragam in 'solam vidhaikayile'...

Everyone here is learning...Idhula silarukku thaan periyan matravan mattam'nnu oru varattu mandai ganam...Veru silarukku vayitherichal..Adhu dhaan thaangala saami.

Vishayam therindhavargalin "vidya garvam" enakku puriyum..Naanum madhikiren...Arai vekaadugalin varattu vaadham enakku allergy. And their vayitherichal "whenever IR's work is lauded", is shamefull/cheap to say the least. Arivu virindha alavirkku manasu viriyala.

To make things clear...I never make loud claims abt RARE scales just for the heck of it. Here is my website http://www.geocities.com/ilaiyaragam/index.html.. check this and let me know..Thappu irundha thiruthikiren...I wud only be happy to do that...(You can ask an unbiased poster like KUPPS abt my eagerness to rectify and constantly work upon this database..he knows it better than any of you here).

And as for Senchuruti in "aatukutti muttai ittu"...well, i will reproduce what i wrote here long time back http://forumhub.com/indcmusic/24541.10768.09.41.42.html (http://forumhub.com/indcmusic/24541.10768.09.41.42.html
)

START QUOTE

Hi ALL,

I learnt today from a radio program that "Aatukutti muttai ittu" from 16 Vayadhinile is based on raga senchuruti..

First abt the raga..

It is best suited for folk flavour..Mostly 'kavadi chinthu'-s are based on the raga..it starts in Panchamam (Pa) and ends in the Panchamam of next octave..

Here is the link for a senchuruti based carnatic flute piece..after i knew that the song is based in the raga, i heard this to get a feel..the link is http://www.musicindiaonline.com/music/l/00010T (see the 8th track there...Folk Melody Ragam: Chenchuruti)...

The start of the song (in the above link) can be directly correlated with the high pitched "Kittapaavin paata ketaen, chinnappavaa nerila paarthen" of the aatukkutti song :-)

Just thought i should share it with u all...

END QUOTE

Hope i have made myself clear.

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
People who dont listen/analyze/bother to learn about about the work of other great MDs(like MSV/GR/KVM and many others) and are stuck within a narrow circle around just ONE MD(whom they themselves claim to be fanatics of) are talking about "virindha manasu", "parandha arivu" and so on..quite amusing:-)) This was a thread that used to discuss great songs from all decades/eras sometime back.

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
This thread "used" to discuss'nna....

Ippo yaaravadhu kaiyya katti pottutaangala...Did anyone BAN any of us here not to discuss "OTHER GREAT MDs"? Then why is no-one talking abt the other great MDs? What is preventing "everyone" here? OTHER MDs paatula pesaradhukku vishayam illaiya, illa pesaradhukku namakkitte sarakku illaiyaa? illa pesina naamala vayasaanavangannu odhikiduvaangannu bayamaa? Do we fear that we may sound "outdated"..i dont understand who/what is stopping it?

Thats the goddamn question that SRINI first asked, in the first place.


------------


[P.S.OK ppl, its WAR. I am gonna stay for some more time :-))...Even otherwise this thread remains activity-less...Indha Debate'aavadhu nadakattume ;-)]

Srini, most of Deva's ganas are sindhu bhairavis...He gave a nice MISRA maand in "rekka katti parakudhadi annamala cycle" from Annamalai.

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
Vel, you should ask all those questions to yourself:-) Everyone else here is/was open-minded enough to discuss songs of all MDs, they are not just one-MD fanatics, however they are probably put off by (immature) fanaticism(evidenced by over-analysis of some medicore IR songs and lengthy lists of songs mapped to rare scales that make little sense most of the time) and have decided to stay away for a while.

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
Overanalysis of some mediocre IR songs? Like what? Could you please give some examples Vijay?

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
Is this you, Vijay?

http://dhool.com/ms/jam/vijay_sindhi.rm

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
:-) Honestly, thats a good tune. But you wud be better if u left the singing part to someone else. The rendition sounds "text-bookish".

Overall, good work.

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
Now reverting back to our WAR :-)


“…..and they are probably put off by (immature) fanaticism and have decided to stay away for a while…”

Lo Behold !!!…Here comes the mouthpiece of “EVERYONE ELSE” in this thread. I don’t think I asked u to talk on behalf of “EVERYONE ELSE”, as a self appointed spokesperson for the ROS thread. I talking about YOU and YOUR specific contributions in this THREAD and in general in TFMPage …Many of the DFers like IR (isairasigai), Ragapravaham Sundar and now Indrajith etc all have criticized (atleast hinted some displeasure) with me for being IR-centric with my ILAIYARAGAM list,…But then these people they have also given me constructive suggestions/corrections/new entries to the database whenever they can, some thru this forum or some thru e-mails…(Bcoz they understand that’s where I have better exposure to, when compared with yesteryear composers and also IR is where my passion is)….The people I have listed above don’t merely rest with grumpy ‘n tiring posts like you do….They helped me make ILAIYARAGAM better (either directly or indirectly), over these 4 to 5 years. That’s what I call constructive suggestions/inputs, compared to destructive, sarcastic, negative and venomous posts (by you and your “aides”)….

Well, I shud say…..thanks to the honest contributions from the aforementioned people only, and my ‘co-compilers’ like Ram, purv etc, very recently, a prominent TV music program producer requested me to send her the ILAIYARAGAM database list… With a heart brimming with happiness I sent the very list that made little sense to you and your “aides” (of IR-is-mediocre-CAMP)… this producer is a thorough carnatic exponent cum singer and has appreciated the effort that has gone in this database…I may not be a “knowledgeable” like IR, Ragapravaham Sundar or Indrajith…but I am proud with my effort nevertheless…

I know I have contributed something worthwhile, even if it was only thru some timely help from so many other fellow Dfers here… As for your contribution, well speak up for yourself. (Frankly speaking, will u not accept that you are getting dangerously stale with ur acidic remarks abt IR that you keep posting all the time as a full time job…)

May be we’ll have to agree to respect each others “mutually exclusive” utility vis--vis each other’s post. You cant find any sense in my posts, and I wont waste time with urs. Clean slate !!!

:-) Well, what puzzles me is this….I have seen your initial years (1999 or so), wherein your IR-centric posts sounded far more “FANATIC” than what I post….May be i shud try “mature fanaticisms” like these…. ( http://tfmpage.com/forum/17033.5982.3.html )...or was this a different (by ur own choice of words, rather “immature” Vijay at that time? :-)).


QUOTE

From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.238) on: Sat Jan 3 02:25:08 EST 1998

a)…..the song 'april meyile' from idhayam also has the same effect.it has a touch of melancholy to it …..IR can only do it!….try singing these 2 pices slower and u'll realise what i said….

b)….the first few times i listened to the song , I was emotionally moved…. the song has left an indelible impact on me…..who else other than IR can do it…? ULTIMATE EXAMPLE OF MUSICAL CREATIVITY AND GENIUS….

c)….each time i listen to this IR song i discover something new in that song which makes me enjoy it better….

d)….as we can see swarnalatha has sung some of her best nos. under IR.hope that she remembers to mention him in interviews.i have never seen her mentioning about IR's ability in any of the interviews.ditto,with prabudeva…..

UNQUOTE

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
Vijayadasmi kku Vel , vijaya vadham pannitaaraa? :))
Vel, I can sort of understand your anxiety to swell your raga database. But to add to our woes,
IR also has not made adequate foray into Carnatic music. Hence the natural course would be to include ragas by MSV/KVM/SVV etc.That would also fill the Gana raga lacunae
(KVM has several Kambodhi's to his credit!!!). Vel, now you are forced to do something like
"I am like a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat which is not there" - borrowing
liberally from vengayam :))
Aiyyo, Vel nd vengayam ennai adikkaadheengo

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
Right you are thumburu. It would be nice to see IR attempt a Khambhodi, Devagandhari, Suratti, or Bhairavi. Though on the other hand, IR hasn't adhered to only the standard Keeravaani, Mohanam, Sindhu Bhairavi, Sivaranjani and Aabheri like some of the more commercially inclined MDs of today. On the other hand, he cannot brag of any Malayamaarutham, Hamsadhwani, Aarabhi or Rasikapriya in the past three years, never mind Khambhodhi, Dwijavanthi or Devagandhari.

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
Vel, you dont have to bother about my contribution to ROS (or TFMDF in general), its all there in the archives. As for what those ppl who contributed to your list, mostly out of pity, really thought about you and your list, you wouldnt want to know(I know a couple of them personally). And I clearly remember suggesting a disclaimer to your so-called raga database which you even gladly accepted and have conveniently forgotten now :-))


Regarding my posts on IR or whatever MD 6 years back I dont care or dont even remember. I have never claimed anywhere that I am not an IR fan(if anything, the reverse is true), so all the digging you do might prove nothing. But none of us at any point of time attempted to bombard a neutral thread like ROS with mundane songs of one MD with lengthy pretentious raga names attached to them while ignoring other MDs.
We always opened separate threads in the main section for discussing any particular MD-related songs. (And worse, in your case, you have your own IR-bajanai thread for ragas in forumhub which YOU started and a separate IR-bajanai mandapam aka His holiness Shri Ilayaraja Yahoo fans club :-)))

So overall, I could care less about your comments on posts or other stuff.

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
"....Vel, you dont have to bother about my contribution to ROS (or TFMDF in general), its all there in the archives..."

Thats exactly what i am talkin abt mate...its all probably there in the ARCHIVES only...Nothing much worthwhile for the past 2 years huh? Oh really, NOTHING, apart from the ‘ottai record’ type stale postings abt ‘IR-NOWADAYS-IS-MEDIOCRE” rantings.

Also on a similar token, can you pls excuse me and pls not bother by constantly bragging abt my "excess-contribution" vis-a-vis IR or "non-contribution" vis-a-vis OTHER MDs? It sucks big time.


"...As for what those ppl who contributed to your list, mostly out of pity, really thought about you and your list, you wouldnt want to know(I know a couple of them personally)..."

ENNA SIR POOCHAANDI KAATREENGALA? It does not really matter whom u know personally and whom u dont.... I already advised you to stop talking like a "self appointed" MOUTHPIECE for OTHERS in ROS thread. … Ungalukku 10 pera personal'aa therinjirundha enakku atleast 2 peraavadhu therinjirukaadha sir...I too have corresponded personally with REAL KNOWLEDGEABLES (e.g. say isairasigai, and as I said, such genuine ppl, though have frankly expressed displeasure at ILAIYARAGAM being Pro-IR-Centric, have also gone out of their way to contribute to my list and have all shared their knowledge with us LEARNERS here)….I can spot the difference between a constructive suggestion and ACIDIC STOMACH JUICE secretions. Pls dont try to append/add ur name to the list i gave (Isairasigai, Rgpm Sundar, Indrajith etc)...U belong to the CROWD. Just like ME. PERIOD. I am not bothered what u personally know, it all boils down to how much you have bothered to SHARE what little you KNOW.


"...And I clearly remember suggesting a disclaimer to your so-called raga database which you even gladly accepted and have conveniently forgotten now :-))..."

And you conveniently forgotten that the DISCLAIMER put on the site very clearly states that readers should use their own discretion/judgement and that the list shud be used only as a reference...Adhu unga kannula padaadhe ?

"...I have never claimed anywhere that I am not an IR fan..."

Then by the same logic, have i ever come to you and claimed that i am NOT a fan of MSV/GR/KVM? I have told u very specifically (more than 10 previous occasions now) that i dont hate MSV/GR/KVM, but it is just that i am able to relate better to IR songs more than other MDs. Its a simple thing that you just dont seem to be able to comprehend/digest for some strange reason.

"...But none of us at any point of time attempted to bombard a neutral thread like ROS with mundane songs of one MD with lengthy pretentious raga names attached to them while ignoring other MDs..."

When u sit and pretentiously analyse APRIL MAYILE and attribute some strange (dumb) reason to conclude that "only IR can do such a thing" and make many more such 'very-mature' claims [in one single page (http://tfmpage.com/forum/17033.5982.3.html)], why shud we lay-people avoid analysing a RARE SCALE, just bcoz YOU are OBLIVIOUS/SCARED/IGNORANT abt it…..STRANGE REALLY...Thats sounded goddamn MEGALOMANIACAL to me..

"...We always opened separate threads in the main section for discussing any particular MD-related songs...."

You don’t own ROS thread, do you ?...Let bb/rajaram/other admin come and even post one single line saying that,

a) i shud force myself to talk abt OTHER MDs too,NOT JUST IR

b) and i shud only TALK abt those RARE scales that will NOT scare/flabbergast/annoy/intimidate the "i-know-only-30-keerthanais-so-entertain-my-ego-within-this-boundary" people here (especially you and your aides)

Let them post this. And i swear, if they did, i will quit visiting this forum the very next moment. I will also withdraw my thread in forumhub. Seri dhaane? You dont have to poke in your unwelcome nose anywhere unnecassarily.


"...And worse, in your case, you have your own IR-bajanai thread for ragas in forumhub which YOU started..."

Yes, and million thanks for not stopping by therein. Its heartening to see that thread being spared by you. That bhajanai-madam will save a lot of trouble sans any "TEXTBOOKISH" abhaswarams from YOUR side, as is now typical of you :-))


"...So overall, I could care less about your comments on posts or other stuff..."

Ada ponga sir...Comedy panaadheenga...Ennamo unga post'aa ellorum vizhundhu vizhundhu padikira maadhiri :-)))


THODARUM

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
Thumburu,

I am not forcing ILAIYARAGAM database down anyone's throat here, am I? Gone are the pre-historic days in TFMPage wherein i used to flaunt the ILAIYARAGAM URL whenever i got the chance. I dont do it anymore & i am sane enuf to know that that is not the way you make ur site popular....

Today, if someone is using the database, its under their own individual choice to USE or DISCARD it entirely or the specific entries therein. Thats that, so simple. Who is forcing anybody here?

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
And thumburu,

You say that the natural course wud be to include OTHER MDs in order to swell-up my database. Well, in case i do it, i will only have to populate it with IR songs...For the simple reason, ilaiyaragam, the website, is just not abt carnatic ragas alone. The database list that many here are mad abt, is just a part of my personal site dedicated to maestro. See ilaiyaragam homepage for other contents (ringtones, research articles by various authors, celebrity fans page, some religious stuff etc etc...) So if u see the homepage, u will unerstand that the premise of the site is beyond merely the ILAIYARAGAM database, which is just a part of a typical fan's website.

So how at all can the the database include other MDs at all? ilaiyaragam is a site for ilaiyaraja, with just that one page wherein i have dedicated for carnatic. Not vice-versa - ie, Its NOT A CARNATIC SITE wherein ppl can accuse me for focusing only on ilaiyaraja.

:-) Dont you see the difference?

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
http://www.geocities.com/ilaiyaragam/home.html (http://www.geocities.com/ilaiyaragam/home.html
)

Verify for urself, Thumburu.

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
Vel, I didnt go about and dig all the garbage you have posted for the last several years:-)) So lets leave it at that. I didnt evn bother read what you dug up and dont even know or care to know whether its my post or someone else by the same name. Anyways whatever I posted regarding ONLY IR songs were all mostly in IR-related threads in the main section, not in ROS. Simple point, yet it seems to, escape you everytime. And as for your comments on my tune, I didnt ask for it neither do i care for it.

Neither bb or admin have the time and resources to monitor each thread. But You and your likes have already done your "contribution" by putting off several ppl here. Some of us are thankfully having useful discussions either over emails or phone from time to time or in a place free from your immature rantings. And if I havent posted much here for the last 2 years its because for the last 2 years all the regular ROS'ers have'nt been posting regularly here too, thanks to ppl like you. No, I dont own ROS thread(neither did I claim that I did). You may continue to "analyze" Kaali perungaaya dabba or other thagara dabbas at your own free will, who is going stop you? :-))

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
1 . ore manam ( villain )
2 . mugham yenna ( subash )
3 . yaaro nee ( sullan )
4 . kavithai iravu ( sullan )

does anyone know the raagas of these songs ?

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
"...I didnt evn bother read what you dug up..."

It was not meant for YOU to read dear old-horse, it was posted for OTHERS DFers to see and make their judegments..

"...Some of us are thankfully having useful discussions either over emails or phone from time to time...."

If its gonna be the kind like your EXPERT ANALYSIS OF APRIL MAYILE etc etc, pls distribute such stuff strictly over ur own network of private emails or phone only....]

"...And as for your comments on my tune, I didnt ask for it neither do i care for it..."

Appada, ippodhan puriyudhu pola...Unga tune'a pathi pesina mattum kobam varudha, adhe maadhiri dhaane aduthavangalukkum...For EACH his OWN, purinjikonga. I still maintain that CONSTRUCTIVE criticisms from PEOPLE who were really willing to share their knowledge, is always welcome. Adhu theriya vendiyavangalukku already theriyum.

So I wont take up cowardly indirect references anymore. PERIOD. And i have already mentioned that you and me belong to the CROWD, so its not fair to try to append ourself with list containing names like isairasigai, rgpm sundar or indrajith. As i said already, they mix constructive criticism with valuable contribution...and it is very different from ULCERIC STOMACH JUICE SECRETIONS.

So, if it has not yet entered your divine-head, let me repeat again, your highness...I too hold similar sentiments, with my database list or in general my posts as you do with your TUNE and YOUR SINGING. And NEITHER DID I ASK for your comments or requested u to give marks abt my knowledge of OTHER MDs, and i dont care either. GET THAT STRAIGHT. I pretty well know who will the right people to ask such questions.

Next time around, please think twice before alluding to other people's posts / abt their focus or non-focus abt IR or OTHER MDs / or spitefull venomous remarks abt OTHER'S KNOWLEDGE (However bloated ur OWN EGO may be).

i think i shud stop this here. Brave men fighteth not the "dead" snake....:-)))


P.S.
[Hey, in all sincerity, ur rendition WAS INDEED TEXTBOOKISH, and didnt quite gel with the emotions/colours that the lyricist UDHAYA has conveyed so well nor did justice to ur tune...also improve your TAMIL ucharippu..Well anyways, thats your botheration mate..No hard feelings]

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
Indrajith,
**I dont really understand how you people Mark the Shatjam from a film song that you listen Just like that. ( if it does not use tanpura or anything of that sort to Fix the scale**

I have seen some singers start singing swaras just like that when they hear a song..mostly in competition shows(without a chord/tanpura)..not sure whether its experience or previous knowledge of the song.

To add to the above query a stupid question..Does a pallavi of a song always gets centred and come back to Sa or a P for that sruti/scale.
on the other hand are there film songs which starts with "ma" and does sancharas back to "sa".. for that scale it would be nice how to find the Shatjam for these songs

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
DIG:

Vel, I never commented directly about your Ilayaragam database in the current debate(I even remember correcting/commenting about your database quite some time back. In fact I have even posted in your forumhub quite long time back. Like I said, you can always check the archives). My comments were mostly about your posts here in ROS thread. Also I wasnt "angry" at your comments on my tune. You are welcome to call it as garbage if you want to. But since you addressed ME in your comments about my tune(and not the other DFers) I just responded by saying that I couldnt care less about your comments, purinjudha? :-)
Also I never intended to "append" my name to any list here nor did I claim that I am a "knowledgable". Its all a figment of your imagination. You seem to be desperate to create an issue here since no one bothers to visit your "Carnatic ragas in IR songs" thread. I see that thread is as deserted as ever with the only post which made sense was by another sensible person named "Unbiased fan" who has echoed similar sentiments to mine :-)) But to find out if someone is "knowledgable" or not, how knowledgable are you to judge that? Idikkudhe..:-)) Did I claim anywhere that I belong to the "knowledgables" list? No, so stop putting words in my mouth. I just mentioned that I know a couple of people personally as friends from that list you mentioned, thats all.

As for that April Mayile I didnt even know or bother to find out if it was really my post or someone else. Doesnt make sense for me to dig up 6-year old posts and find out why I posted that way 6 years back. We are talking about your current posts not about your 6-year old posts so lets keep it that way. Even if I had praised IR fanatically it would be in an IR-related thread in the main section not, in ROS. Get that into your head and we'll move on. I dont wish to debate this any further here.


Others, sorry for the unwanted commercial breaks, pl. carry on with the main agenda :-)

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
Hello Guys

Iam new here and yes am a music freak..just an introduction I will be back with my comments..

Any topics?? :)

Thanks
Naarayan

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
Is that really you who posted the previous post?

If yes, then you r learning very fast mate. Thats sounds such a nice polite tone to use, Vijay, when one is talking in a public forum. Thats all i want you to do. Try not to sound like a boss or mr.know-all each and everytime you post. If you follow a polite yet firm voice (like Kiru or K, a DFer most of us respect) then everyone will like you and will also stop and ponder over what you have to say. Otherwise u will only be a lonely soul, all by urself...

".....You seem to be desperate to create an issue here since no one bothers to visit your "Carnatic ragas in IR songs" thread..."

:-) How did u know no one visited? Have you then been checking it more often than me? Thats heartening to know. Or is it like you take great pleasure in seeing the thread being visitor-less? Queer n weird, aint it...

"...Even if I had praised IR fanatically it would be in an IR-related thread in the main section not, in ROS..."

So what if you praised IR only in IR related thread? If IR deserved a praise, i will do it. I wont worry if it is going to hurt some prejudiced minds over here.


"...I dont wish to debate this any further here..."

Ayya saami, Nandri Vanakkam. Umakku Kodi kumbidu...:-)

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
Can anybody say where I can download 'Isayil Thondanguthamma' from 'Hey Ram'. If any of you have an MP3 please do send it to me at shree_123@indiainfo.com. Also,is the song based on pure hamsanaadham??.

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
Pretty much, srini, it is.

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
Pradeep,
I am also wondering how to fix the scale of a cini song which does not have any Tampura or any as such.
If anyone knows please let me know.
Regarding the people who just sings swaras for songs that they hear its all about SCALE.

The same swarasthana can be used to render different swaras in different scales and even in different ragas.
So I am confused.
I sincerely feel that it is something to do with
grahabedha, about Which there are many posts in ROS.

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
This is Regarding Maand and Misra Maand.
The word MISRA specifically means MIXED.

In thumri, the singer is allowed to take more flexible approach to the raga.( I personally feel it is rubbish). Notes outside of the framework of Raga Mand are added with great effect, and for this reason it is considered as Misra (or mixed) Mand.

for an insight,
Raga Mand is a light classical melody originating in Rajasthan. Whereas Rag Misra Mand is a blend of Rajasthani tunes and folk tunes from Bengal. It can cater both the moods for MDs pathos and joy. It is an early evening into the late night Raga.

We say Maand is a derivative of 29 th mela and the arohana & avarohana are
S G3 M1 P D2 S
S N3 D2 P M1 G3 R2 S

Add some more swaras to this ( Randomly?? ) and it will give you Misra Maand.
There is actually no hard and fast rules for doing "Misram" on a raga.

Generally misram is done on only one swara
( sivaranjani and misra sivaranjani are good examples where we can play with the Gandharam)

But if you are going to ask me any more on this topic... I am going to turn pale.
:))

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
Vel & Vijay,
Come on guys, you are worth something more than what you people are discussing(WAR?).
Come out with some good stuff.
It's no harm whether it is IR or KVM or some one else ( I might have stressed the other way around some time back) forget it.

Lets speak music.

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
Narayanan:

Topic is "wor(l)d war 1" - idhula ragam enna nnu kaNdu pidinga :-)

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
Porukku ugandha raagam ennavo?
Gambeera Naatai

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
Indrajith, Thanks.

I see R1, M2, D1 often used for the misra variety.

Is then even 'oru naal podhuma' misra maand then?. Sowkiyama kanne and rekka katti parakudhadi (annamalai) are misram for sure.

The royal karnatik site lists "ooru sanam thoongirichu" and "panneer pushpangale ragam paadu" too as (misra) maand.

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
raga of the song please : 'yedho ninaivugal' from 'Agal vilaku' (kalyanavasantham?????')

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
"Porukku ugandha raagam ennavo?
Gambeera Naatai "

idhula IR pOtta paattu 4 pOdunga mythila :)

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
Hmm... 'Yedho Ninaivugal' seems to be Sumaneesharanjani and/or Sudhadhanyasi (with the difference lying in the Ma; Ma2 and Ma1 respectively). I couldn't say for sure; it's been a long time since I last heard the song. :-)


BTW, I heard 'Thendralil Aadidum' from Madhurai Meeta Sundara Pandiyan tonight. What a diluted usage of Sudhasaveri (sounds nothing like the Sudhasaveri tunes given by Ilayaraja and Ravindran)! Also heard 'Subharaagame' from Kanniraasi. What a splendid song!! Also heard 'Sangeetham En Degham' from Baalanagammaa; also a splendid song.

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
Thendralil Aadidum sounded to me like Devagandhari.
I might not be correct.

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
MS, the last Naatai of IR that conquered me was "Unai thedum raagam idhu" - Ponmegalai(Bombay Jaishri) minus the annoying dialogue intervention.
"Thendralil Aadidum " pallavi alone is aarabi or devagandhari. But the charanam "karpagathu solaiyile" is in charukesi. My pick from MMSP is "amudha thamizhil" .
I doubt if the entire song esp the charanam also follows Dhvijavanthi

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
I think Thendralil adum starts with "Suddha Saveri" and then changes to a ragamalika.

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
Hello. Can anyone tell me what raaga base is the violin solo bits in Alwar pettai from Vasool Raja MBBS.....?And can u pls include the notation if it's possible? thank u so much.

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
Srini,

Edho ninaivugaL cannot be kalyaanavasantham.

wondering how i can say that? simple, because our long time DFer Srikanth has said/challenged a few times that IR has never tuned in kalyaanavasantham ;-)

if it is indeed in kalyaanavasantham then Edho ninaivugaL is not tuned by IR. :)

JFF

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
Kupps, "Velli chalangaigal"- kaadhal oviyam,
"gyan gyan paadanum" - poonthalir,
"kannamma kadhal ennum kavidhai" patellam pinna enna raagam sir?

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
Purv/Kupps/thumburu ,please listen to the song and tell me correctly. It sounds like kalyanavasantham to me.

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
Srini,

Read purv's reply. I second his opinion..But i wud like to add that sumanesaranjani does allow both madhyamams (M2 in arohanam and M1 in avarohanam if i am not wrong )..[If it were M2 both ways, its fair to call it madhukauns]. But based on feel, 'Nalam vaazha' from marubadiyum, which has both madhyamams, is still quoted as madhukauns.

Rasigai - i think the song has kapi base. Especially that piece in question is just a slight modification of 'enna thavam seidhanai' line

Thumburu...velli chalangaigal is chandrakouns. 'Kannamma kadhal ennum' is samudrapriya (it is S R2 G2 M2 P N2 S | S N2 P M2 G2 R2 S)...some may say samudrapriya / sumanesaranjani are same. But the difference i think is the additional rishabham in samudrapriya. [But for all these, melakarta details ellam kekaadheenga...Naan appeettu :-)]

Nyan nyan paadanum - i dont think it follows any pattern.

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
For Information,
Madhukauns is a Hidustani raga basically. For Madhukauns the scale is : S G2 M2 P N2 S - S N2 P M2 G2 S .
The Carnatic counterpart for this raga happens to be Sumanesaranjani, which of course has Suddha Madhyama in the Avarohana.
The scale for this raga is: S G2 M2 P N2 S - S N2 P M2 G2 M1…. G2 S (With a slight oscillation of M1)

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
Thanks Vel )-

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
Digression

This is one of my most favorite threads. I have some ideas. On the new TFM DF,
1. we can simply transfer this thread as a permanent topic, and continue
or
2. Open a dedicated forum, and extract out individual songs & their discussions as SEPARATE topics. Then, each song can be discussed neatly forever, if desired. We can even create a master page of songs,ragas & discussions of each. And, more..

What do you guys think? Any other ideas?

End

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
Hi
This question is not about carnatic music or ragas but I am asking it here because I read the posts here regularly and I think people posting here watch SUN tv. My question is: Who is the female model in the ad for the indigo marina car? And is she the same as the model in the Gwalior suiting or Raymonds suiting ad-- the one who wrinkles up her husband's suit because he has a female boss?

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
thumburu - welcome...edho enakku therindhadhu :-)

RR,

Choice 2 is my pick obviously - but r u going to pick up stuff from the archives or is it going to be a fresh start?

padma - romba mukkiam :-) [JFF ok, NOM].

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
vel: we'll definitely use archives. Isn't it a treasure trove?
But first we have to be sure that many are not put off by such new ideas. Otherwise, it's best to just follow choice 1.

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
RR,

Very true a treasure trove alright..but the massive task wud be to seggregate the worthwhile instead of storing the entire archives. So someone has to pick up the EDITOR's scissors.

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
worthwhile "stuff"

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
what raga is the song 'Aagaya gangai' from dharmayudham based on?

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
I am reposting a part of my earlier query :
Can somebody tell me where I can download 'Isayil thondaguthamma' from Hey ram

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
Srini, adhu madhyamavathi (i think it has some Ni3 touches though).

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
i would like to know whether the tamilsongs background music i can download.

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
vel, thanks

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
Thanx Vel sir! agree with the kapi bit from enna thavam but cant seem to get the change...hmmm thanx anyway:)

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>
but the massive task wud be to seggregate the worthwhile stuff instead of storing the entire archives
>>>>>>>>>>>>

Vel,

hmm..so you want to wipe out all my posts in this thread. Too bad :((

thumburu,
naan 'thunpuru'vanumunnu kEtteenga but u see Vel has saved me :)

So, still my quote is correct - "IR has not tuned any song in kalyaanavasantham", right friends?

Oldposts
11-03-2004, 11:54 AM
srini, welcome.

rasigai...Experts may clarify further for you..Try singing 'enna thavam seidhanai" in that violin bit format. I dont think it will fit in. Thats what i think.

Kupps,
How does one say for sure. May be there is still some song hiding out somewhere, wherein IR has used the raga.
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Srini
11-03-2004, 02:32 PM
Vel, can you explain the raga lakshana of Hamsanaadham. Also, has IR used hamsanaadham in any other folk styled song like 'Sorgame endralum' (from ooru vittu ooru vanthu')??

Nitya
11-05-2004, 01:47 AM
Hey guys.

I was wondering... the Panchamam of Charukesi acts as the Shadjam for Natakapriya, right? Well, since it is so common for phrases in Charukesi raagam to end on Pa, which is Sa for Natakapriya, what are the nuances in Natakapriya that distinguish it from Charukesi? I'm really interested to know, and think it's important information for others that want to learn Karnatik raagas.

RR
11-05-2004, 02:00 AM
the Panchamam of Charukesi acts as the Shadjam for Natakapriya

Can you explain pls? for me, these two ragas have entirely different scales. But in theory, if one takes Pa of charukesi as Sa and respectively the subsequent swaras, the resulting scale will be natakapriya.

Nitya
11-05-2004, 07:14 PM
Here's an example of what I mean:


Song: Aadal kalaiyae
Film: Sree Ragavendhirar
Notes: s r2 g3 m1 p d1 n2 S

Aadal kalaiyae devan thandhathu
p~GRS nRS ndnp mnp mg m p
devanin aadalilthaan jeevan vandhathu
sgr gm p m np dp g m p S ndnp

(Aadal kalaiyae)

Stanza 1:
Malligaiyai ven sangaai vandinangal oodhum
nS S S S S S Sp p d n S SnRS ndnp

mellisaiyin oa..saipoal mella siriththaal
g g m p gmp mr s s r g m mndpd

vanna vanna maelaadai punaindhaadum paingili
SG G RS R GR RM G S GR RM MG GR Sn n d

maan koottam mayanga thaavi thaaviththaan sendraal
nd nd R R R R G GS R Rn S ndn pdnS

(Aadal kalaiyae)

Stanza 2:
Siththira naattiyam niththamum kaattidum
p p p p p p p nd p m m m

sitridaithaan kann parikkum minkodiyo
g grg m gr g m p pg m p pndnp

vinnilae vaazhnthirukkum vennira nilaa
S ndn S S S S nd n S R GM GRS

pennena kaaleduthu vandhatho ulaa
S ndn S S S S nd n S R GMG

munnazhagum pinnazhagum pennazhago
S GRG M n S R G pd n R S

mullirukkum kallirukkum poovazhago
S GRG M n RSR G pd n R S

malai iranga kalai vilanga nadam puriyum padhumaiyo pudhumaiyo
d p dp p d p d p p m d p m g s r g m r g m p

sathangaikal thazhuviya pathangalil palavidha jathi swaram varumo
m p d dm d d p m g m p p p p m g p m g r s r g

? ? sarasa bhaashaiyo
srgmpd gmpdnS p d n S R G

surangalil pudhu sugangalai tharum chaarukaesiyo
s r g m p d g m p d n S pd n SR G M

SSSSSS SGRGMM SSSS SSSSSS pdnRS
GMGRGR SSMGRS nnRSnd ppSndp

(Aadal kalaiyae)

Nitya
11-05-2004, 08:14 PM
Hey guys,


Maybe some of you raaga buffs could inform us? Last night I heard a krithi played by Kunnakkudi Vaidhyanathan on his violin, in raaga Gowda Malhar. It sounded incredible! I would like to know more about the details of the raagam. For one, the name itself is really cool. Also, the raaga sounds similar to Sudhasaveri. What I'm asking is, what is the difference between Sudhasaveri and Gowda Malhar?



Regards,
Nityanandha

RR
11-06-2004, 01:53 AM
Here's an example of what I mean:


did I miss something? :?

RR
11-06-2004, 02:37 AM
Maybe some of you raaga buffs could inform us? Last night I heard a krithi played by Kunnakkudi Vaidhyanathan on his violin, in raaga Gowda Malhar. It sounded incredible! I would like to know more about the details of the raagam. For one, the name itself is really cool. Also, the raaga sounds similar to Sudhasaveri. What I'm asking is, what is the difference between Sudhasaveri and Gowda Malhar?


That song must be the popular 'saarasamukhi' (Harikesanallur).

The only film song in this raga is 'innarul tharum annapoorani' (aathma, sung by TNS).

Nitya
11-06-2004, 02:51 AM
What I asked is, what is the raaga lakshanam and the special parayogams for Gowda Malhar?

vel
11-06-2004, 03:26 AM
RR,

Is not innarul tharum sudha saveri / durga?

RR
11-06-2004, 03:35 AM
RR,

Is not innarul tharum sudha saveri / durga?

er.. I just realised, yes.

Here's hari's post from archives:


From: Hari (@ ts10-8.slip.uwo.ca) on: Mon Jun 15 19:01:21 EDT 1998


Karnatic Gaud Malhar (no connection to the Hindustani ragam of the same name) is a derivative of Shankarabharanam. And it resembles sudha saver. Its scale is:
Sa ri2 ma1 pa dha2 sa
Sa ni3 dha2 pa ma1 ga3 ri2 sa

(according to Raga Nidhi by Subba Rao, this ragam does not have pa in the descent. I guess that is a variant.)
I think the Aatma song is in Sudha Saveri.

Nitya
11-06-2004, 01:12 PM
Thanks for the information. So, the Karnatik Gowda Malhar goes like:

Sa Ri2 Ma1 Pa Dha2 Sa
Sa Ni3 Dha2 Ma1 Ga3 Ri2 Sa

It's scale is similar to that of Aarabhi and Devagaandhaari, but you can just play the swaras in the avarohanam plainly, yes?

pradeep
11-08-2004, 03:28 AM
Hi,
Is it possible to point to the last page in this forum directly...Everytime we have to clickto the last page to see the recent topic!

RR
11-08-2004, 05:24 AM
Hi,
Is it possible to point to the last page in this forum directly...Everytime we have to clickto the last page to see the recent topic!

Yes: http://tfmpage.com/forum/new.html

Indrajith
11-08-2004, 11:18 AM
The Ri and Pa of Gaurimonohari when taken as Sa will give rise to the Melas like Natakapriya, Vachaspathi and Charukesi.
On Doing grahabedha on either of these we can get another
( Natakapriya, Vachaspathi, Charukesi, Gowrimanohari)

Some of the grahabedha list is as follows

(1) Kanakangi(51) Kamavardhini
(2) Ratnangi(19) Jhankaradhwani(53) Gamanasrama
(3) Ganamoorti(54) Viswambari(55) Syamalangi
(4) Vanaspati(25) Mararanjani
(5) Manavati(61) Kantamani
(6) Tanaroopi
(7) Senavati(17) Suryakantam (63) Latangi
(8) Hanumatodi(20) Natabhairavi(22) Kharaharapriya(28) Harikambhoji(29) DheeraSh
ankarabharanam(65) Mechakalyani
(9) Dhenuka(35) Soolini(56) Shanmukhapriya(66) Chitrambari
(10) Natakapriya(23) Gowrimanohari(26) Charukesi(64) Vachaspati
(11) Kokilapriya(62) Rishabhapriya
(12) Roopavati
(13) Gayakapriya(69) Dhatuvardhini
(14) Vakulabharanam(21) Keeravani(58) Hemavati(71) Kosalam
(15) Mayamalavagowla(57) Simhendramadhyamam(72) Rasikapriya
(16) Chakravakam(27) Sarasangi (59) Dharmavati
(17) Suryakantam (7) Senavati(63) Latangi
(18) Hatakambari(43) Gavambodhi
(19) Jhankaradhwani(2) Ratnangi(53) Gamanasrama
(20) Natabhairavi(8) Hanumatodi(22) Kharaharapriya(28) Harikambhoji(29) DheeraSh
ankarabharanam(65) Mechakalyani
(21) Keeravani(14) Vakulabharanam(58) Hemavati(71) Kosalam
(22) Kharaharapriya(8) Hanumatodi(20) Natabhairavi(28) Harikambhoji(29) DheeraSh
ankarabharanam(65) Mechakalyani
(23) Gowrimanohari(10) Natakapriya(26) Charukesi(64) Vachaspati
(24) Varunapriya(32) Ragavardhini
(25) Mararanjani (4) Vanaspati
(26) Charukesi(10) Natakapriya(23) Gowrimanohari(64) Vachaspati
(27) Sarasangi (16) Chakravakam(59) Dharmavati
(28) Harikambhoji(8) Hanumatodi(20) Natabhairavi(22) Kharaharapriya(29) DheeraSh
ankarabharanam(65) Mechakalyani
(29) DheeraShankarabharanam(8) Hanumatodi(20) Natabhairavi(22) Kharaharapriya(28
) Harikambhoji(65) Mechakalyani
(30) Naganandini(34) Vagadheeswari(44) Bhavapriya
(31) Yagapriya
(32) Ragavardhini(24) Varunapriya
(33) Gangeyabhooshani(60) Neetimati
(34) Vagadheeswari(30) Naganandini(44) Bhavapriya
(35) Soolini(9) Dhenuka(56) Shanmukhapriya(66) Chitrambari
(36) Chalanata(45) Subhapantuvarali
(37) Salagam
(38) Jalarnavam
(39) Jhalavarali
(40) Navaneetam
(41) Pavani
(42) Raghupriya
(43) Gavambodhi(18) Hatakambari
(44) Bhavapriya(30) Naganandini(34) Vagadheeswari
(45) Subhapantuvarali(36) Chalanata
(46) Shadvidhamargini(70) Nasikabhooshani
(47) Suvarnangi
(48) Divyamani
(49) Dhavalambari
(50) Namanarayani
(51) Kamavardhini(1) Kanakangi
(52) Ramapriya
(53) Gamanasrama(2) Ratnangi(19) Jhankaradhwani
(54) Viswambari(3) Ganamoorti(55) Syamalangi
(55) Syamalangi(3) Ganamoorti(54) Viswambari
(56) Shanmukhapriya(9) Dhenuka(35) Soolini(66) Chitrambari
(57) Simhendramadhyamam(15) Mayamalavagowla(72) Rasikapriya
(58) Hemavati(14) Vakulabharanam(21) Keeravani(71) Kosalam
(59) Dharmavati(16) Chakravakam(27) Sarasangi
(60) Neetimati(33) Gangeyabhooshani
(61) Kantamani(5) Manavati
(62) Rishabhapriya(11) Kokilapriya
(63) Latangi(7) Senavati(17) Suryakantam
(64) Vachaspati(10) Natakapriya(23) Gowrimanohari(26) Charukesi
(65) Mechakalyani(8) Hanumatodi(20) Natabhairavi(22) Kharaharapriya(28) Harikamb
hoji(29) DheeraShankarabharanam
(66) Chitrambari(9) Dhenuka(35) Soolini(56) Shanmukhapriya
(67) Sucharitra
(68) Jyotiswaroopini
(69) Dhatuvardhini(13) Gayakapriya
(70) Nasikabhooshani(46) Shadvidhamargini
(71) Kosalam(14) Vakulabharanam(21) Keeravani(58) Hemavati
(72) Rasikapriya(15) Mayamalavagowla(57) Simhendramadhyamam

mythila
11-08-2004, 08:08 PM
Is there a raga called Mohana(not the popular Mohanam)?
What is the raga of "Yadhuvamsa thilaka" ? Is it Behaag? Thanks

Srini
11-10-2004, 02:06 PM
Wish you guys a happy and prosperous Diwali

-Srini

Nitya
11-11-2004, 12:31 AM
Mythila, where did you hear of a raaga called Mohana different from Sa Ri2 Ga3 Pa Dha2 Sa? Maybe there is such a raaga separate from the simple, universally attractive pentatonic scale we call Mohanam, but I don't know.

Nitya
11-11-2004, 12:33 AM
BTW, please note that Nitya=purv. We are one and the same. 8)

vel
11-11-2004, 12:03 PM
Srini,

I can fairly easily detect hamsanadham. But if you ask me vadi, vivadi, samvadi, characteristic phrases etc etc, i wont be able to answer technically as well as someone like isairasigai (IR) or rgpm sundar.

vel
11-11-2004, 12:11 PM
And unfortunately, both these guys dont quite post these days. You just have to wait till someone else tries answering ur querry. (RR may pitch in)

Nitya
11-11-2004, 11:49 PM
I can say quite confidently that vivadi phrases are those that employ Sathshruti Rishabam (Ri3), Suddha Gaandhaaram (Ga1), Sathshruthi Dhaivatam (Dha3), or Suddha Nishaadam (Ni1). Vivadhi is Sanskrit for inimical, opposite of vadi, or harmonious. The following melakartas are all vivadhi raagams: Kanakangi, Rathnangi, Ganamurthi, Vanaspathi, Maanavathi, Thaanaroopi, Senavathi, Roopavathi, Gayakapriya, Hatakambhari, Jhankaradhwani, Varunapriya, Maararanjani, Naganandhini, Yaagapriya, Ragavardhani, Gangeyabhushani, Vaagadheeshwari, Shoolini, Chalanaatai, Saalagam, Jalarnavam, Jalavaraali, Navanitham, Paavani, Raghupriya, Ghavambodhi, Divyamani, Dhavalaambari, Vishwaambari, Shyamalangi, Neethimathi, Kaanthaamani, Chitrambari, and all the rest up to Rasikapriya.

Characteristic phrases cannot be easily explained, for a lot of raagams. For a raagam like Reethigowla, Kanada or Saaranga, which derives its distinctive flavor from characteristic phrases, then no problem. However, there are innumerable raagams wherein the raaga lakshanam does not outright state the characteristic phrases. For instance, Aarabhi raagam has several raaga-specific phrases that are not seen directly in the scale; just playing the keys of Sudhasaveri going up and Shankarabharanam coming down aren't enough; the Gaandhaaram and the Nishaadam have to come in the transition from the Madhyamam to Rishabam and Shadjam to Dhaivatam respectively-- phrases like Ga3-Ri2-Sa, Ri2-Ga3-Ri2-Sa, Pa-Ga3-Ri2, or Pa-Ma1-Ga3 are disallowed, if one wants to adhere to Aarabhi raagam. Parayogams like these may hint Devagaandhaari or Sama raagam instead, and even these raagas have raaga-specific phrases, like Devagaandhaari has several phrases where Ni2 comes into play, even though the scale for Devagaandhari doesn't show it.

I know it's not related to Hamsanadham, but I'm sure the raaga is laden with characteristic phrases as well.

RR
11-12-2004, 01:49 AM
And unfortunately, both these guys dont quite post these days. You just have to wait till someone else tries answering ur querry. (RR may pitch in)

vel, cycle gap-la nammalai maatti vidreengale. I'm just a film song buff, I don't know about the deeper classical stuff. But I like to hear from IR and other experts.

Nitya
11-14-2004, 05:55 PM
Hey guys, what's up? I saw the song 'Kanni Ponnu' (Ninaivellaam Nithya) mapped to Hamsanadham raagam. Is this correct?

RR
11-15-2004, 02:08 AM
Nitya, never heard of that song!

Talking about 'hamsanadham', have you heard the title song of the tv serial 'Marumagal' (*ing kushboo) that goes like 'nilaa nilaa oliyodu'? That sounded like a good one to me.

Nitya
11-15-2004, 03:37 AM
RR, you can listen to the song pretty much anywhere online where the songs of 'Ninaivellaam Nithya' are hosted.

RR
11-15-2004, 06:02 AM
Found it on Raaga. It resembles 'sorgame endraalum', but apart from that this song didn't interest me any further.

rajeshrs_tvm
11-16-2004, 01:24 PM
Vel.. Vanakkam!
ungalai "New Hubber" endru paarpadhu sirippaaga ulladhu..!

Srini
11-16-2004, 09:45 PM
yes, 'Nila Nila polivodu' is a good one. I guess it was composed by dheena.
BTW, I was wondering if there are any ragas that closely resemble hamsanaadham. Somethin like, paavani - chandrajyothi, Bavapriya -Subhapanthuvarali....... any idea??

RR
11-17-2004, 05:56 AM
yes, 'Nila Nila polivodu' is a good one. I guess it was composed by dheena.
BTW, I was wondering if there are any ragas that closely resemble hamsanaadham. Somethin like, paavani - chandrajyothi, Bavapriya -Subhapanthuvarali....... any idea??

Yes, Dhina. I think hamsanadham is close to sarangatharangini.

Check out this discussion (from archives): http://forumhub.lunarpages.com/archive/viewtopic.php?p=5855#5855

Srini
11-19-2004, 02:28 PM
RR,
Thanks a lot. Any idea how Saarangatharangini differs from hamsanaadham??

RR
11-20-2004, 12:30 PM
RR,
Thanks a lot. Any idea how Saarangatharangini differs from hamsanaadham??

you saw the link, rite?

Srini
11-22-2004, 05:21 PM
RR,
Thanks a lot. Any idea how Saarangatharangini differs from hamsanaadham??

you saw the link, rite?

Oh, am sorry, I did not notice it. I saw it just now.

Srini
11-24-2004, 08:47 PM
I heard the song 'Raaja Raani Jacki' from the film 'Netrikkan'. Really good song. I was wondering if this song is based on any raaga... Any Idea??

RR
11-25-2004, 03:24 AM
I heard the song 'Raaja Raani Jacki' from the film 'Netrikkan'. Really good song. I was wondering if this song is based on any raaga... Any Idea??

Metoo like that song. Raga.. hmm, no idea. But 'maappillaikku' is a good one in this movie. we've discussed enough though.

Srini
11-25-2004, 05:51 PM
Yeah, Mappilaiku and 'Ramanin' are all great numbers.

BTW, I happened to listen to 'Endrendum ananthame.......valibathin rasanai' . This song is sung by malaysia vasudevan. Am unable tofind the name of the film. Can somebody help me out?. a telugu actor sings this song in a stage, and ambiga watches it. Any idea what the film is?. The song sounded like mayamalavagowlai to me.

RR
11-25-2004, 11:52 PM
Yeah, Mappilaiku and 'Ramanin' are all great numbers.

BTW, I happened to listen to 'Endrendum ananthame.......valibathin rasanai' . This song is sung by malaysia vasudevan. Am unable tofind the name of the film. Can somebody help me out?. a telugu actor sings this song in a stage, and ambiga watches it. Any idea what the film is?. The song sounded like mayamalavagowlai to me.

movie: kadal meengal.

RR
12-03-2004, 03:25 AM
In case you haven't seen, do check out the two series 'Rajanna Raja thaan' and 'Pick of the week'. http://www.tfmpage.com . Lot of raga-based discussions.

Nitya
12-04-2004, 03:40 AM
I've seen the SOTW thread, and I've actively participated in that thread, active DFer that I am. It's awesome, with some entries that even Vel sir hasn't touched on.

Okay, new subject:

Remember how Mr. Vijay was saying that many Tamil songs cannot accurately be mapped to any raagam, e.g., 'Aathaara Suruthi' (Konji Pesalaam), 'Nenjodu Kalanthithu' (Kaathal Konden), 'Thillana Thillana' (Muthu), etc.? He's right. And in regards to his words, the song 'Siriya Paravai' from Antha Oru Nimidham comes to mind. You know how everyone's been mapping it to Charukesi raagam? Only the second charanam can be mapped to that raagam. I think it's foolish to say that the whole song is Charukesi raagam. Any thoughts?

RR
12-04-2004, 04:17 AM
foolish? can you explain pls.

my 2 cents: scale is not raagam. Just because a 'dappanguthu' song falls into S R1 G3 M1 P D1 N3, we can't call it as MM gowla raga. Maybe 'MM gowla based' is acceptable.

Nitya
12-04-2004, 07:13 PM
Well, if you're familiar with Charukesi raagam, you know how it sounds. In 'Siriya Paravai', only the second interlude and charanam sound like Charukesi. The rest of the song sounds like something else, some minor scale.

Srini
12-06-2004, 08:44 PM
Can you tell me where i can download these songs :

1. Kanavu ondru - oru odai nathiyagirathu (I just downloaded another song , 'thendral ennai' from this movie. If any of you is searching for it, its at artika.net. but this is the only song avlbe there)
2. kaadhal kavithaigal from gopura vasalile.

Also, I guess,the first one is malayamarutham and the second mayamalavagowlai. am i right??

Srini
12-06-2004, 08:54 PM
please add 'Sorgame endralum' (ooru vittu ooru vanthu) and 'sintiya venmani' (poonthota kaavalkaran) to my above list.

RR
12-07-2004, 02:38 AM
Srini: I think all of them (& more) are available on coolgoose.

http://as01.coolgoose.com/music/category.php?id=10003

Srini
12-07-2004, 01:08 PM
Srini: I think all of them (& more) are available on coolgoose.

http://as01.coolgoose.com/music/category.php?id=10003

My first try was in coolgoose. but I cud nt find these songs there.

RR
12-08-2004, 02:40 AM
Often the songs in random categories. Have you browsed thoroughly? Anyway, I may have some of them. I can send you.

Srini
12-08-2004, 12:58 PM
Often the songs in random categories. Have you browsed thoroughly? Anyway, I may have some of them. I can send you.
That would be great. please do send them to shree_123@indiainfo.com.

Nitya
12-12-2004, 12:36 AM
I've become curious, and maybe raaga whiz kids like Indrajith could clarify: is the song 'Kaathal Oviyam Kanden' (Kavikkuyil) based on any raagam? I highly doubt that the correct designation for the song is Hameer Kalyani, as Vel's database suggests, as the song uses the notes of the mela Harikhambhodhi, with a trace usage of Ni3.

RR
12-12-2004, 02:20 AM
Nitya, it sounded Behag-ish to me. But your points are valid.

vel
12-13-2004, 04:47 AM
Yeah, Mappilaiku and 'Ramanin' are all great numbers.

BTW, I happened to listen to 'Endrendum ananthame.......valibathin rasanai' . This song is sung by malaysia vasudevan. Am unable tofind the name of the film. Can somebody help me out?. a telugu actor sings this song in a stage, and ambiga watches it. Any idea what the film is?. The song sounded like mayamalavagowlai to me.


Srini, it is sarasangi.

RR
12-15-2004, 02:43 PM
Interested in discussing MS' TFM songs? you can listen to them here: http://tfmpage.com/mss/

ramsp35
12-16-2004, 05:36 AM
What raagam is the song "Kalyana maalai kondadum penne" ? Is it Madhyamavathi?
:roll:

vel
12-16-2004, 06:34 AM
What raagam is the song "Kalyana maalai kondadum penne" ? Is it Madhyamavathi?
:roll:

Sindhubhairavi touches with few natabhairavi like usages (ri2 in both arohanam & avarohanam)

vel
12-16-2004, 06:50 AM
Can you tell me where i can download these songs :

1. Kanavu ondru - oru odai nathiyagirathu (I just downloaded another song , 'thendral ennai' from this movie. If any of you is searching for it, its at artika.net. but this is the only song avlbe there)
2. kaadhal kavithaigal from gopura vasalile.

Also, I guess,the first one is malayamarutham and the second mayamalavagowlai. am i right??


Kanavu ondru thondrudhe - is revathi

You r right abt kaadhal kavidhaigal being MMG.

Indrajith
12-17-2004, 08:29 AM
"and maybe raaga whiz kids like Indrajith could clarify"

By all means I am not.

Thanks

Indrajith
12-17-2004, 08:30 AM
Do any of you mind uploading your own images than other cartoons as we can visualize you someway or other.
Please avoid giving some cartoon or any others photos.

Thanks

vel
12-20-2004, 09:43 AM
Do any of you mind uploading your own images than other cartoons as we can visualize you someway or other.
Please avoid giving some cartoon or any others photos.

Thanks

IMHO, thats irrelevant i wud say :-)

Srini
12-22-2004, 09:02 AM
Can somebody tell me what raaga is the song 'Vedam anuvilum oru ragam' from salangai oli based on??

Indrajith
12-23-2004, 01:12 AM
It has fine flavours of Hamsanandhi.

RR
12-23-2004, 01:24 AM
Srini,

sometime ago we talked about saranga tharangini and its closeness to hamsanadham. Now I think saranga tharangini is quite different in terms of 'saayal'. Just listen to the Bombay Jaysree song in 'Guru Raman Geetham'.
Btw this album has one excellent Desh. IR really gets into mood when it comes to Desh. When he was churning out lot of half-baked melodies in late 90's/early 2000, suddenly comes the beautiful 'oranjaaram ushaaru'..!

Nitya
12-24-2004, 10:19 PM
Doesn't Sarangatharangani utilize Dha2 in addition to the standard Hamsanadham swaras?

RR
12-25-2004, 03:23 AM
nitya, yeah it's the fourth one ('ennai kavarndhizhutha'). You have the original cd? It sounded fuller & even better in cd. Especially with the lyrics. It was like being at Ramanar's place and taking a tour. Too good.

Apart from the 'oranjaaram' tune, the interludes are just lovely.

RR
12-25-2004, 03:31 AM
oops, I edited your post by mistake. sorry :( Could you add the rest of the text again? :oops:

Nitya
12-26-2004, 08:09 PM
I honestly don't remember what I typed in before; I remember it was something about Ilayaraja's works in Desh raagam.

RR
12-27-2004, 01:43 AM
Nitya, it was something like:

"Did you mean the 4th song in 'Guru Ramana Geetham'. yes, it's a good one. Though 'oranjaaram' had funny lyrics, the tune was good. " Then you mentioned couple other IR's Desh songs and 'dharshan paayi more', I can't recall exactly.

mythila
12-27-2004, 09:03 AM
I remember a good Desh tune from IR in some obscure film
"theertha karai thanile" , sung by Mano and KSC . It goes like
"vizhiyil pudhu kavidhai padithen" . The thaalam is also quite different

Nitya
12-27-2004, 08:40 PM
Yes yes Mythila, definitely 'Vizhiyil Puthu Kavithai' is a great one; gives the same refreshing, heavenly sensation that 'Poongaatre Theendhaathe' (Kunguma Chimizh) does. The other songs in 'Theertha Karaiyinile' are also really good, eg, 'Aasai Kiliye', 'Theichi Vida Poren', 'Theertha Karai Orathile', etc.

vel
12-28-2004, 04:49 AM
Yes yes Mythila, definitely 'Vizhiyil Puthu Kavithai' is a great one; gives the same refreshing, heavenly sensation that 'Poongaatre Theendhaathe' (Kunguma Chimizh) does. The other songs in 'Theertha Karaiyinile' are also really good, eg, 'Aasai Kiliye', 'Theichi Vida Poren', 'Theertha Karai Orathile', etc.


Uh huh?!!

Aint 'poongaatre theendaadhe' Brindhavan saranga?

Nitya
12-28-2004, 05:44 AM
Of course vel. I wasn't referring to raaga, but rather to the feeling I get from hearing the song.

vel
12-28-2004, 06:18 AM
Of course vel. I wasn't referring to raaga, but rather to the feeling I get from hearing the song.

Ok purv cool :wink:

What do u think abt 'jilla muzhukka' (priyanka) and 'Manadhil ore oru poo poothadhu'...do these mix bit of "kapi" somewhere?...Juz pondering....

Nitya
12-28-2004, 07:00 PM
Vel, I haven't ever heard 'Jilla Muzhukka.' But 'Manathil Ore Oru' I think mixes a little bit of Desh with Brindhavana Saranga.

vel
12-29-2004, 06:48 AM
Vel, I haven't ever heard 'Jilla Muzhukka.' But 'Manathil Ore Oru' I think mixes a little bit of Desh with Brindhavana Saranga.

Desh sounds more like it, than kapi, sure...i think thats the raga that has been mixed, not kapi...

How abt 'dhaivangal kan paarthadhu' ?

Srini
12-30-2004, 07:17 AM
RR,
is the album 'Guru Raman Geetham' available on the net??. I have nt heard of this album.

Also, I heard the song 'Sangeetham en megam andro'. Guess it is sung by vani jayaram , but not sure. This song is available on http://www.raajangahm.com, under the 'rare song samples' section. Any idea what raga is the song based on ??

RR
12-30-2004, 07:23 AM
RR,
is the album 'Guru Raman Geetham' available on the net??. I have nt heard of this album.


Check the top banner in tfmpage.com .

Nitya
12-30-2004, 07:01 PM
Yes sir Srini, 'Sangeetham En Degham Andro' is based on raagam Chitrambhari, the 66th Melakarta raagam (the next up from Kalyani)

tsjsujaarun
01-03-2005, 04:57 PM
hey...why you gals taking about ilayaraja `s compositions only?? can someone trace n inform me the raga of songs in Laysa Laysa movie?? email me at tsj@sify.com as soon as possible . Thanks !

Nitya
01-04-2005, 10:54 AM
I don't know the ROS for Harris Jayaraj's compositions (nor do I take the trouble to hear them). Anyway, I don't know that there are songs in 'Laysa Laysa' that can be mapped to raagas.

doraip
01-06-2005, 02:29 PM
Could some one let me know the raga of Chennai Senthamizh - M.Kumaran - S/o Mahalakshmi

RR
01-07-2005, 01:45 AM
Could some one let me know the raga of Chennai Senthamizh - M.Kumaran - S/o Mahalakshmi

dorai, it's based on Naattai.

Nitya
01-09-2005, 10:47 PM
Hey guys, I'm wondering if there's anyone knowledgeable enough to answer me this one question: what are the distinguishing parayogams, gamakas, jiva, graha, and nyasa swaras for the raagam Kadhanakutoohalam?

rajeshrs_tvm
01-10-2005, 07:58 AM
RR chennai sendhamizh- nattai or chalanaatai?
------
What s the raaga of song
"kandaen kandaen" from madura(i) is it in Brindavana saranga
or madhyamavathi?

RR
01-10-2005, 08:17 AM
rajesh: It's Nattai. Did you watch sun tv top 10 songs of 2004? Harish Ragavendra also mentioned it.

I'll get back to you on 'kanden' later.

rajeshrs_tvm
01-11-2005, 07:29 AM
ok rr. thanks

Indrajith
01-11-2005, 05:29 PM
rajeshrs_tvm,

Dont you see "MAHA GANAPATHIM" in the song.
Direct lifting. Nothing else.

:-)

Indrajith
01-11-2005, 09:55 PM
Hey guys, I'm wondering if there's anyone knowledgeable enough to answer me this one question: what are the distinguishing parayogams, gamakas, jiva, graha, and nyasa swaras for the raagam Kadhanakutoohalam?

Great !! Is there anyone in this little world??

:-) Looking forward.

Nitya
01-12-2005, 06:02 PM
I take that you have the same question as I, is that right Indrajith.

Indrajith
01-13-2005, 07:04 AM
By all means I have my explanations and theories about it.
But just looking out for any one else's comment before I comment on it.

:-)

salaikumar
01-13-2005, 08:21 AM
hi can anyone tell me from which site i can download good malayalam songs of yesudass(apart from coolgoose)

RR
01-13-2005, 11:07 PM
hi can anyone tell me from which site i can download good malayalam songs of yesudass(apart from coolgoose)

Post your query here:

http://forumhub.lunarpages.com/hub/viewforum.php?f=19

RR
01-14-2005, 04:46 AM
Vetrigalin mutharporule (Raja's Geethanjali - nonfilmy album), is it kanakangi?

narayanan
01-14-2005, 09:53 PM
rajesh: It's Nattai. Did you watch sun tv top 10 songs of 2004? Harish Ragavendra also mentioned it.

I'll get back to you on 'kanden' later.

btb...is azhagaana manjal pura from ellame en raasathaan(rajkiran movie) the same raga as well?

kanden kanden and that song sound very similar.

Nitya
01-15-2005, 12:17 AM
'Azhagaana Manjappuraa' is based on Madhyamavathi raagam, not Naattai. The charanam has some Ni3 usage as well as the standard Madhyamavathi swaras.

rajeshrs_tvm
01-17-2005, 03:38 PM
film: Ayyaa
Song: Oru vaartha(i) kaetka kaathirundhaen...
Is in't this in Sudhadhanyasi without any anyaswaras?.
nice song with a different male voice :)

Srini
01-17-2005, 08:56 PM
Hi, I heard the song 'ennavale' from kaadhalan, when the song was half way, I inadvertently started singing, 'Aanantha Natana Prakasam' a kriti in raaga 'ketharam'. All these days, i have been thinking that ennavale is in naatai. Any comments?. Also, the more I hear the anupallavi 'vaaimozhiyum' the more 'kedhaarish it is to me.

Indrajith
01-18-2005, 07:55 AM
Ennavale is a cocktail of Kedharam, Nattai, Shankarabharanam etc. etc.
That's what I feel many might not agree.... :-)

RR
01-18-2005, 08:28 AM
Indrajith: I agrzhee... (Hv 'tasted' it many times)

I would like your opinion on raga of these songs:
1. megame megame (VJ - paalaivana cholai)
2. vasantha kaalam varumo (KJY,PS - marakka mudiyuma)

Any good examples of Karna Ranjani,Pilu (apart from 'vannam konda'),Behag (apart from 5 star song) in films?

Thanks.

madhu
01-18-2005, 11:20 AM
Hi RR!

is "endhan uyir kadhalan kannan kannan" by P Suseela from the film Kalyana oorvalam is based on Behaag ?

RR
01-19-2005, 11:32 PM
madhu: dont remember having heard it. can you send me?

rajeshrs_tvm
01-20-2005, 07:32 PM
Film:Madhura(i)
Song:Kanden Kanden..
Isn't this song primarily in Madhyamavathi
s r2 m1 p n2 s with n3..
expecting response...pls.

rajeshrs_tvm
01-24-2005, 12:46 PM
suddenly silent...? :roll:

RR
01-24-2005, 01:28 PM
rajesh: I think Brindavana saranga follows this pattern (madyamavathi + N3). Anyway let's wait for experts..

Srini
01-25-2005, 10:56 PM
RR/Indrajith,

any idea where does the song use kedharam and where it uses naatai??. Or is it so mixed that one really cant classify?. I feel like the pallavi is full of naatai,especially the last line 'kaadhalendral perum avasthai endru unnai kandathum kandu konden' where it reaches rishabham. Guess the first few lines of the anupallavi use kedharam.
Comments???

vel
01-28-2005, 03:37 AM
Any guess on 'sola pasungiliye' from en raasaavin manasile?

RR
01-28-2005, 08:13 AM
Srini: Yes, the line you quoted has naattai feel. But overall the song sounds like a 'kalappadam'. Anyway, let's wait for Indrajith to tell us more.

RR
01-28-2005, 08:13 AM
"Carnatic ragas in film songs"

http://www.hindu.com/fr/2005/01/28/stories/2005012800340300.htm

Srini
02-01-2005, 10:36 PM
Vel:

Sola pasungiliye sounds like chakravaagam to me. Anyway, let me wait for experts to comment.

Nitya
02-02-2005, 05:08 PM
Vel: I believe I told you my opinion already: Sindhu Bhairavi.

Srini
02-02-2005, 07:49 PM
ROS please : 'Kaathal mayakkam' from puthumai penn. Thanks

Nitya
02-03-2005, 05:11 PM
ROS please : 'Kaathal mayakkam' from puthumai penn.


Sudhasaveri

dinesh2002
02-07-2005, 05:14 PM
what raag is DATING - BOYS

Srini
02-07-2005, 11:28 PM
Dinesh,

I guess its based on Saaranga.

BTW, any songs by IR on saaranga ??.

Nitya
02-08-2005, 01:23 AM
There is... one IR song based on Saaranga: 'Kaathalil Maattaamal' in 'Paarvathi Ennai Paaradi,' sang by Malaysia Vasudevan. It runs a little under two-and-a-half minutes, and has only one charanam. Also, 'Oru Devathai Vanthathu' has some Saaranga phrases in the interludes (listen for the quintessential Saaranga parayogam, pm2r2g3m1r2.)

Nitya
02-08-2005, 01:24 AM
I mean, 'Oru Devathai Vanthathu' from the film 'Naan Sonnathe Sattam.'

Srini
02-09-2005, 09:07 PM
Nitya:
thanks, will listen to it. is the song 'sollayo' from mogamul based on shanmugapriya or simendramathyamam???.

Nitya
02-09-2005, 11:59 PM
Shanmugapriya.

Indrajith
02-10-2005, 06:45 AM
Gopangane song from Bharatham Any comments?

Shanmughapriya reminds me of

'Ooru Vittu Ooru vandhu' from Karagattakkaran.

:-)

RR
02-10-2005, 07:59 AM
Indrajith,
Gopangane is Naattai, right? IMO a tough song, can even notice KJY not being able to perform at his best..

Gopika vasantham (HH.Abdullah) is a different, but wonderful shanmugapriya.

Indrajith
02-10-2005, 11:41 AM
Yes , Exactly... Gopangane is Nattai... Just thought if any one will be interested in elaborating the nice naunces of Nattai in the song.. .( I love it... !!!) Jagadha nandhakaraka... is played as it is in the interlude...
:-) Great work actually...

Yeah... Gopika vasantham is a notable one in Shanmukhapriya... But my vote will go for ..... Kannukkul Nooru nilavaa - Vedham pudhidu.

And Any comments on Vannathi Puzhayude theerathu from Kaliyattam.
I don't think any one ever including IR,AR can ever think of such an innovation. Pure Sree Ragam. ( Just like that Lifted Baagyadha Lakshmi Baarama for the pallavi).

When we go about singing Bagyadha Lakshmi .. generally we tend to sing it this way... "majjiga yolagina Benne endhe" like
"pa sa sa ni ni pa ma , ri pa ma ri ga ri sa" But the actual sree ragam comes in to picture if we sing it like "pa sa ni pa da ni pa , ri pa ma ri ga ri sa" .. It has been wonderfully demonstrated in the song. ( nilavi orungni..... phrase);

From the same movie, Kaliyaattam, there is one more notable song "Ennodu endhi nin pinakkam" ... Trust it is Sahana and .. It seems ages that we got such a soothing song in Tamil.. ( Might be Mun paniya can compete with this)

It takes my breath away when it comes to Kethara Gowla... I dont know if there are any songs in TFM in that raga.
Aandholanam makes me feel bliss. I dont think any other song can be composed as good as that for the sake of cini music.

And to name one more I dont know the film of the song but ... ' Deva kanyaka soorya thampuru meetunnu" it is a nice piece in shankarabaranam and The phrase "Nazhiyil MuLa Naazhiyil Gramam Nanma mathram Alakkunnu... " Is the best usage of Shankarabharanam I have ever heard of. ( Any comments??)

I think it is Abheri.. "Padhira pullunarnu ... paral mulla kadunarnu " film not known, is a very good melodious Abheri...
And "Rathingal Koothali chaarthi...." is a good number... I dont know the raga though...

And I wonder if the songs can get any better than songs from
Any time I think of good " Indian " songs you cannot just avoid naming atleast few in malayalam.

Though this forum is mainly for TFM.. I think we shall spend some time from now on looking into our neighbours and explore the best out of them...

NOTE: I dont know Malayalam & I rarely get chances to listen to malayalam songs ( Though I have some decent collection) So please put in links to the songs you are referring so that I get a chance to listen to it.

Indrajith
02-10-2005, 11:45 AM
Some might feel offended that we are distracting you all with Malayalam songs. Rather than searching for ragas in pretty ordinary or a completely western or songs with such base... I thought we should take up a raga and see how well it is used in "GOOD" songs. I mean which song uses the Raga to perfection without demolishing the feel & structure of the Raga...

There is no doubt that Malayalam songs are the best when we think about songs based on Classical ragas.

We should not be so .... obcessed with TFM.... and forget to check out what those guys have done or doing... .Just giving them a glance is my plan...

Any Objections???

Nitya
02-10-2005, 11:58 PM
Indrajith buddy, I am thrilled that you are discussing Malayalam songs. I have heard others' gripes, "oh, Malayalam songs are monotonous, all slow and karnatik-based, primitively orchestrated, and all that..." Well, one man's garbage is another's gold, enough said.

You can allude to Malayalam songs all you like, as far as I am concerned.

RR
02-11-2005, 07:08 AM
Indrajith,
Love to hear more on the Naattai usage. Thanks for the list of MFM goodies.. It's ok to allude to MFM once in a while, but let us not overdo it. :) On this new Hub forums, there are separate threads to discuss MFM or pure carnatic music, as you know.. In fact there's a thread on Carnatic aspects of IR music too.. So why don't we continue there? I'll definitely be exploring the malayalam songs you recommended and posting comments there.. In fact, I'm already doing that (with song links) on some of the songs I discovered on my own or recommended by fellow hubbers like Nitya..

Indrajith
02-11-2005, 10:04 AM
"Sindhooram Peidhirangi pavizha malayil" song ( I dont know the movie name) is a best bet to explore.
I would appreciate if any one jumps in for explanations.

Regarding the Nattai piece I dont think there are many nattai Raga songs in TFM. Maha Ganapathim is not a TFM one for me atleast.
Will write in detail in next posts... In training now.. ;)

RR
02-11-2005, 12:23 PM
Nattai has been done enough in carnatic, probably not much novelty to bring out. One ragamalika in karnan, I think starts with Nattai.
Well we have the variants gambeera nattai,chalanattai.

Nitya
02-11-2005, 10:31 PM
'Thottilil Thodangidum' from 'Kanne Kaniyamuthe'? Could this song be Naatta-based? Other than this song, I know of 'Unnai Thedum Raagam Ithu' in 'Ponmegalai' which is most likely an original composition, and 'Chozhar Kula' in 'Udan Pirappu'.

Srini_M
02-14-2005, 01:02 PM
Movie Karagatakkari by Ilayaraja @ musicindiaonline.

I find Enga Ooru close to Maya Malava Gowlai and Koti Vecha Muthe in Chakravagam. Experts, pls clarify. Thx.

Srini
02-14-2005, 09:50 PM
Has illayaraja attempted to compose a song in Dhanyasi??. (except for sangeetha gyanamu from mogamul :) Its a raaga I really love listening to. Any comments??

Its closest mate (as far as i know) thodi has found a place many songs of IR like gangai karai mannanadi from varusham 16. But dhanyasi ???

sunilk
02-15-2005, 05:27 AM
hi

i am a new member ; but an oldie as far as interest in carnatic/film songs go!! happy to join this forum. I am a big fan of classical / light music (carnatic, tamil/malayalam /hindi films)

Gopangane aathnmavile...is i think Gambira Nattai (sgmpns/snpmgs), which is different from nattai;



I have 2 qns

1. Muthukalo kanngal : sounds like Kaanada ? is it so but there are shades of madhyamavathi also?

2. Nenjam marappidallai ... beautiful number compose by Vish/Rama ; can't identify the raaga ..somewhere it sounds like maandu in avarohanam...

best regards
sunil

RR
02-15-2005, 05:49 AM
I think 'muthukkalo kangal' is Brindavana saranga.

sunilk
02-15-2005, 10:44 AM
i think u are right that it is brindavana saranga - only i happened to read somewhere that malare mounama..mouname pesuma is d.kanada and it sounded very much like muthukalo...

coolcrave
02-16-2005, 08:27 AM
as above
thank you :)

coolcrave
02-17-2005, 05:02 AM
Any current tamil cinema songs based on the raga Abhogi ?

Is adiye kizhiye from kudaikkul mazhai by ilayaraja based on raga ? :?

Thank You :o

RR
02-17-2005, 07:45 AM
kizhinjudhu.. ippadi shout panna enga kaathu koodaa..
Wait for responses, will you?

I can't recollect any abhogi's recently.. But sometime ago there was a good one in jingles "mangai aval koondhal thanil thedral veesidum menmai... raaga..raaga.. raagaa.."

coolcrave
02-17-2005, 07:48 AM
Just got a little excited i guess :oops: :roll: .Anyway Thanks[[/b]

Indrajith
02-17-2005, 12:16 PM
I dont think there are any new songs or any recent songs based on abohi...
I dont know if I am rite!!!

Nitya
02-17-2005, 02:54 PM
'Adiye Kiliye' in 'Kudaikkul Mazhai' is most likely Abhogi raagam; it may not be a pure rendition though.

Srini
02-18-2005, 09:37 PM
Yup. I guess adiye kiliye sounds like abhogi. The only recent (??!!)song I remember other than adiye kiliye is 'Vaa saki vaa saki' from the film 'arasiyal' starring mamooty.But this film i guess was released in the late nineties!!.

BTW, I asked in earlier posting if there are any songs in dhanyasi by IR. Any Idea??
[/quote]

RR
02-19-2005, 01:26 AM
Srini, 'vaa sakhi' is sriranjani or abhogi?! 'vaLLuvan..' line gives a strong sriranjani feel..

I have no idea about IR's dhanyasi. Maybe he likes only cleansed dhanyasi.. I mean Suddha dhanyasi..

coolcrave
02-19-2005, 05:28 AM
Vaa saki is definately in sri ranjani as it is well defined in the "Valluvan" part..After some search i found that adiye kiliye is not purely in abhogi except the pallavi...& some parts of the charanam till the Ni3 is introduced at "Unnodu" (Caranam).Ni2 is used during 1st interlude changing the raga to sriranjini :)

vel
02-21-2005, 06:21 AM
srini,

Kotti vache muthe - tough call that as chakravagam...hmm, may be thats the base with lot of deviations.

Enga ooru laila - MMG as you guessed right...but some arabian stylings and groovy interlude works.

Enna petha aathaannu - subhpanthuvarali in master's own voice.

Kaatukili kaatukili - classy natabhairavi (reminded me instantly of araicha sandhanam from chinna thambi)

Saada maada pechukellam - Mohanam dhaane?

jaiganes
02-21-2005, 02:14 PM
hi vel!!!
did you see "Raagotsavam" programme on kairali TV ?
Yesterday they analysed "Bhairavi" raagam! It was amazing!!
I moved 'Kairali' TV to top ten and pushed KTV back in the TV. The programme was amazing and they did not discriminate against Thamizh and Telugu music and was heartening to see Neyveli Santhanagopalan also joining in to explain the raagam. The comperes explained the ragam to me as if I were a 5 year old! Particularly when I heard "Kaamakshi" in the voice of Semmangudi thaatha, it felt great!! The program concluded with a professor explaining "pann" marabu of Ancient tamils and as an example sung a verse from "Thiruvaasagam" . All in all the entire breadth of the raagam along with the indicators to janya ragams was covered in good detail. As if to follow it up, podighai telecast a programme "Thulladha Manamum thullum", an old goldies programme. All songs were sung by professional troupe singers. The lead singer Anantha Narayanan explained the raaga and then introduced the song and a brief history of it. It was truly musical evenings on sundays in TV!!!

Srini
02-21-2005, 08:42 PM
RR,

Yes i guess you are right. But I really if it is based on pure sriranjani. Especially, the first couple of lines of charanam sounds like Abhogi to me. Please correct me if am wrong.

Srini
02-21-2005, 08:42 PM
oops! typo : " I really doubt if its based on pure sriranjani".

sunilk
02-22-2005, 09:51 AM
hi jaiganesh -
I too watched the program and loved it (prior to this i watched suddha saveri program on this channel too)

incidentally bhairavi is reportedly over 1500 years old!
considering it is one of the 6 most important raagas according to experts (in the program), surprisingly few film songs as I know are based on this :
unnai kaNDu mayangaada pErgaLuNDO ((old number)
thirupaar kadalil palli kondaaye...
athisaya raagam last piece - aval oru bhairavi...

can anyone add to this list..
probably because of the strong 'bhakti' flavour , it is difficult to make light filmi numbers??? - same case with thodi??
regards
sunil

RR
02-22-2005, 12:26 PM
sunilk, how about 'santhana thendralai' (KKKK)?

Indrajith
02-22-2005, 12:28 PM
Here are some more to add from the database

aadavendum mayile
thedi vandene (madhurai veeran)
taaye bhairaviye maamaaye

By all means we should not associate Bhairavi with the "Bakthi" bhava always. It is a very heavy raga to handle. Its like a "Hot-Potato" and no one wants to get hold of it.

As we can see the extent to which the raga can be explored in the songs like Kaamakshi- swarajathi , Koluvai, upacharamu, Baala goplala etc.. If atall we want to use it in Cine music then we need to dilute it to the max and then give it a try, which no MD dares to do :-)

Nitya
02-22-2005, 11:07 PM
Indrajith said:


If atall we want to use it in Cine music then we need to dilute it to the max and then give it a try, which no MD dares to do

But how about 'Thiruppaarkadalil Palli Kondaaye' in Swaami Iyyappan? I realize the song has traditional Indian instruments, but isn't that a cinematic rendition of Bhairavi raagam?

Sudhaama
02-23-2005, 12:57 AM
Indrajith,

// thedi vandene (madhurai veeran) //

It is Not... "BHairavi".... as said..... But... JONPURI...

jaiganes
02-23-2005, 01:36 AM
As said before,
I searched for Bhairavi based songs in TFM and could not find many that I could add to the list already provided. Because of the base depth involved maybe MDs thought it better to avoid it. Atleast in Malayaalam Film Music there must be some bhairavi considering the general tenor of male singers there(KJY, JC, MGS etc. all more biased to the bass).

vel
02-23-2005, 05:10 AM
jaiganesh,

my cable fellow does not give kairali...he gives kiran...strangely, most mallu channels seem to have programs covering tamil songs !...i dont see the logic (this kiran channel yesterday had a one hour slot titled "tamil songs")

jaiganes
02-23-2005, 05:43 AM
I guess mallus are a lot more cosmopolitan than us "Sutha thamizhans" (We are more 'satha thamizhans'). nyways, thinking of opening a thread for this program in Indian classical music section, but the problem is I don't follow malayalam fluently. So it would be better for someone who can follow malayalam and has access to kairali TV.

Srini
03-01-2005, 09:36 PM
What raga is the song 'Vedham anuvilum oru raagam' from salangai oli based on???

Nitya
03-01-2005, 11:40 PM
'Vedham Anuvilum oru raagam' is based on pure Hamsaanandhi raagam.

Indrajith
03-02-2005, 05:00 AM
Is there any songs based on Amruthavarshini, Sumaneesaranjani in the recent past????
Would like to know those... :-)

Srini
03-02-2005, 12:13 PM
Indrajith,

Guess the song 'Ding dong koyil mani' from Jee is in Amruthavarshini.

Sumanesharanjani.......Naan appeettu :)

sunilk
03-03-2005, 10:48 AM
hi RR

I thought enna solla pogirai (KKKK) sounded like keeravani (which has a different Ni , i believe, from bhairavai!)

yes, we mallus are cosmo in taste as supply from mallu films is too less and not so great quality! i am actually a mallu bought up in chennai and i love tamil film music though i am rather out of touch for the past 5 years..more of a fan of (the one & only ilai RAJA!) and those days..

may i repeat my first query of does anyone know which raga(s) is the song " nenjam marappiddallai adhu..)

it is tantalisingly close to maandu in some parts..but like kirvani etc elsewhere; Is MSV a member of this hub!!! :D

regards
sunil

Raghu_Mallu
03-03-2005, 10:58 AM
Hi, A shocking news.......
Malayalam Music director Raveendran passed away today afternoon i Chennai apollo....
He had also composed some ever green hits in tamil like ehzisai geethame, padi azhaithen ....etc.....
He was a genius.
Lets all pray for him.........

Raghu_Mallu
03-03-2005, 11:06 AM
Raveendran's songs have been analysed threadbare even in this forum..
pranaams to him.......

coolcrave
03-04-2005, 03:28 AM
"Unakkena Iruppaen" from the movie kaadhal...do you thing so guys? :lol:

coolcrave
03-04-2005, 03:36 AM
Ananda Natanam Adinaar from sindhubhairavi......

Indrajith
03-07-2005, 05:45 AM
It is really a shocking news. I just wanted to check out hte details regarding Raveendhran. I love the way he creates tuned and orchestrates. A BIG loss to the Music industry.

Indrajith
03-07-2005, 05:47 AM
Chandramukhi Songs any comments ...?

A song in sriranjani is cool. ( Konji pesi konji pesi....)
Madhu balakrishnan has done a decent job. But I am really sorry for the female voice...

:)

Sri Ranjani is findig its place again in the industry after a very long break.

RR
03-07-2005, 07:23 AM
Indrajith, I thought that ('konja neram') was Abhogi..
What do you think of 'raa raa'.. Resembled Surya to me..

Indrajith
03-07-2005, 10:44 AM
Your examination is considered !!

coolcrave
03-08-2005, 06:53 AM
Yeah I feel Konjam Neram is in ABHOGI....Madhu has done an excellent job handling it. As for raa raa it initialy it gives a strong feel of SALLAPAM a very rare raga to be used in film music ?. (Correct me if i am wrong) but futher as the song grow many anya swaras are introduced. Its A great Number too. :o